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Thread: Wessex Sinfonico - Dave Werden Review

  1. Glad the Sinfonico gets another positive review, I am getting real what if I had bought something else thoughts, so I have got to ask…. What makes the Adams “better” I understand the level of customisation makes it fit the owner better, and I bet that alone makes the price difference worth it, but beyond that are their fundamental things that define it clearer?

    Different and personal preferences are understandable.

    Once upon a time I just had to work with what I was given, all the blame for shortcomings on tunings articulation tone quality etc was squarely aimed at me…. Now I am a buyer and more knowledgeable about equipment design compromises, I would like to know what is missing, if I were to throw more money at an instrument what elements am I improving?

    What would you say to someone to persuade them to make a more expensive choice?

    PS not a sales person, just thirsty for knowledge, or to know what compromises I am happy to live with, or deal with while saving up for the next step up, however it might end up.

    PPS the Sinfonico is settling in my ensemble environment very well, tuning between me and my seat mate has improved we seem to be naturally finding the balance, conductor has commented nicely about the overall euphonium sound we are outputting…

  2. #12
    The Adams is built to a different standard (hence the different price). Customizations are nice, of course, but Adams also offers their "Selected" choice, which is still an expensive horn. That one has a preset configuration that most people will like, and can therefore be cheaper than the Custom series.

    Anyway, when playing the 2 horns in the same room, the Adams is a bit easier and more consistent to play. It feels smoother. Its range of expression is also greater. Both those factors are subtle. But on the Adams I have an easier time playing to the standard I want (not to mention the standard I'm trying to re-achieve after years of day-job work), and I can play it with more confidence. They can take more time during assembly, which helps things a bit. The man who builds most of the euphoniums is actually a euphonium player, and I have to think that helps as well.

    Adams is getting frequent feedback from top players in Europe on their whole brass line, and they implement changes when the see a need. That has driven the quality so far and continues to do so. A horn like Wessex, as good as it is, simply won't have the numbers of top players using it (because the appreciate even subtle differences), and that brings more quality feedback for Adams. (In a sense a pro brand will have a somewhat "unfair" advantage in that regard.)

    When I was doing the A/B excerpts I appreciated the Sinfonico's ease of response, which in some ways seemed even easier that the Adams. But I came to realize that the little difference brings to the Adams extra smoothness and consistency. Maybe; just my theory. In any case it feels better when I'm being picky with the way I want a phrase to come out.

    I was hesitant to talk too much about the Adams difference because A) it is expected, and B) it is not really relevant to someone trying to find their best horn in the <$5k price range. I own a top-of-the-line Subaru and I love it. I know darned well that if I drove a similar model of Mercedes (to name just one example) I would see what I'm missing. But nothing about the Mercedes diminishes what I like about my own car. Not unlike the horn ranges, there are cars for about half the price of mine out there, and they are also good cars. I simply bought what I thought was the best car for what I want, while being within my budget.

    If I had only $3k to spend I'd buy the Sinfonico. Or if you want, for about 3x that price you can have one just like mine!
    Last edited by davewerden; 08-11-2021 at 01:04 PM.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  3. #13
    Thank you for the review Dave. Very comprehensive as usual. Some lovely playing and hard at times to pick out any difference between the two Euphoniums.
    It will be interesting to see how well the Sinfonica Euphoniums cope with wear and tear, this seems to be one of the main things that put some people off.
    JP374 Sterling + Mercer and Barker GW3

  4. Ok, thanks for that comprehensive response Dave, sounds like the extra level of customisation is what really takes it up a notch and is worth the investment if it’s financially available.

    I guess that this not being a clone model that makes the R&D and feedback loop important for targeting future improvements, and that is unavoidably passed onto the consumer…

    DEF1, I notice that you have a Dolce, how long have you had it and how has it survived? That could be a fairly good indicator for the Sinfonico and Wessex in general.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Jharris View Post
    Ok, thanks for that comprehensive response Dave, sounds like the extra level of customisation is what really takes it up a notch and is worth the investment if it’s financially available.

    I guess that this not being a clone model that makes the R&D and feedback loop important for targeting future improvements, and that is unavoidably passed onto the consumer…

    DEF1, I notice that you have a Dolce, how long have you had it and how has it survived? That could be a fairly good indicator for the Sinfonico and Wessex in general.
    I’ve only had the Dolce for 3 months so not long enough to comment on wear and tear yet.

    I did go back and forth between the Dolce and Sinfonica when looking to buy but not being in a band at the moment decided that the Dolce would more than serve its purpose. I know that the Dolce’s are improving all the time and the build quality now is better than the originals. I was happy to pay the price of the Dolce but would want a to be sure of a better quality if paying double.
    Last edited by DEF1; 08-12-2021 at 09:35 AM.
    JP374 Sterling + Mercer and Barker GW3

  6. Quote Originally Posted by euph97 View Post
    Thanks for the review.
    Dave wrote in his review: "I found most notes on the horn were centered and responsive. I did have some trouble on the upper G concert, which did not seem to have a "happy place" that I could find..... "
    2 years ago Matonizz experienced the same and described this note as" Stuffy".
    I am also having problems with this note. However I am a hobby player.
    Is that issue acceptable?
    Thanks in advance.
    Euph97
    Sometimes a note will feel funny even though it doesn't sound bad. I have a horn that has a funny resonance on high F# that you can only feel from behind the bell. In front of the bell there is no indication that there's anything wrong. String instruments get the wolf tone, everything has a natural resonance. Sometimes these things can be fixed by adding a strap around the bell throat. Make sure all the braces are firmly soldered, there are no screws loose or debris in the horn, that sort of thing. But if it's just a feel thing rather than actual sound, I'd just make peace with it as a part of the horn.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Summerville (SC)
    Posts
    483
    Hello Def1, several things point to Sinfonico having a good chance of a longer lifetime than the entry level Wessex Dolce and Festivo…

    For one thing, Sinfonico is hand-made from sheet-metal in a high grade artisanal workshop, where it is my understanding that higher skilled artisans attend to the construction of each individual horn from start to finish. An artisanal approach to construction is likely to produce a higher degree in pride of work/quality hence process care and quality control than the distributed assembly-line used for the standard grade horns.

    It is further my understanding that the Silver plating on Sinfonico may be thrice as thick as what is used on Festivo and Dolce.... Once again, this suggest that the overall fit&finish in Sinfonico might be even more robust/durable than in the other two Wessex euphoniums.

    Now concerning Sinfonico's tone, as I heard from Dave's fabulous 12 comparative exerpts…. I confess that I am not only favorably surprised, but also very impressed. While in eight of them I detected a slight tonal/resonance/flexibility advantage in the Adams E3, in 4 of the examples I was totally unable to assign a preference to a particular member of the pair.

    And no, I could not detect any nasality (or bassoonish tone) in Sinfonico, on the contrary, I found its tember to be glorious, if barely falling short of Dave's E3's magnificence. Furthermore, I was delighted about Sinfonico's full resonance, including in the dreaded compensated transitional area between the main fully chromatic region and the pedal region.... Conversely, My lovely Festivo does tend to sound a little cardboardy in that area.

    Sure, we could argue that E3 may best Sinfonico's expressive potential, and that E3's intonation in the high treble might be more sure-footed than Sinfonico's, but.... it is worth considering that E3 Selected is priced at two and half times Sinfonico…. and the Sterling bell E3 costs some three times as much as Sinfonico. Even the more moderately priced Shires Q41 sells for almost twice as much as Sinfonico.

    Thus, Since reading and listening to Dave Werden's revelatory review, I am now of the opinion that Wessex Sinfonico is effortlessly holding its own, comfortably above step up euphos, and may be even grazing the performance level of modern pro-horns.

    Regards, Guido
    Last edited by guidocorona; 08-13-2021 at 04:31 PM.
    M5050L - DC2&3, SM2&4U, BT16, Carbonaria Heavy & New
    Wessex EP104 Festivo - available
    Carolbrass CCR7772 Bb cornet - Available

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Southeast Texas
    Posts
    7
    Thank you for the review. If you were going to choose between the Sinfonico or a 1970's Boosey Imperial... which would you choose?

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by PhilGo View Post
    Thank you for the review. If you were going to choose between the Sinfonico or a 1970's Boosey Imperial... which would you choose?
    [The following was partly in my PM response on Facebook]
    Of course it is partly a personal choice, and it depends on what you want. If you follow this forum you know I'm a big fan of the older Bessons for their robust build quality and their charming sound. However, the Sinfonico would be easier to play because of its superior response and intonation. Wessex is great about improving their horns based on user experience, and the Sinfonico needs a couple tweaks, neither of which affect the playing. But a used Besson may need some tweaks as well. I would go nuts over the noisy brass valve guides, so I would replace them with plastic, for example.

    Anyway, the choice between a used pro-quality horn and a new mid-range horn has been a toss up until now. I believe the Sinfonico changes that, perhaps to a 60/40 choice in its favor. But it is still a choice. For me, it would be a harder choice if I found a used Imperial that had retro-fitted plastic guides and which was in excellent condition. Over many years I got used to my alternate fingerings for Eb, E, and F (concert), even though they would cause me to chip notes now and then. Not sure I want to go back to doing that, so my odds on choosing the Sinfonico might be more like 75/25.

    A factor I forgot to mention is the range below E beneath the bass clef staff. The new horns (Adams, Sinfonico, but also Willson, Besson, Yamaha, Miraphone) all response SO much better in those compensating notes above pedal Bb! Some of the music I want to play requires facility/flexibility to run through that range, and I'd be limited on the old Bessons. If you are playing in a concert band, that does not come into play very often.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  10. The Imperial is a fantastic instrument, well deserving of its reputation, but it can’t get over a modern brass band for solo lines competition from every other large bore instrument… then valves and intonation as Dave has pointed out…

    In the uk they are around £1300, so as a budget buy they are a great option even now… but they would all need restoration work sooner or later, possibly seeing if a trigger addition? Anything like this adds costs, possibly getting more expensive than a Globe Stamp… and they still do sing across a modern band… a trigger could be a option to help and again restoration might be in its near future…

    Once you take restoration costs into consideration, price wise they are similar to the Price of a Sinfonico, which has better intonation can sing across a band, responds better giving larger dynamic range and easier extreme pitches high and low, and modern styling, this IMO puts Sinfonico in a far superior positioning as the better choice.

    Guido mentioned that the Sinfonico grazes professional standard, that is a professional modern standard, which is far different from what the professional standard was in the 70s with medium bore band mates, 50 years is a long time for a R&D process to have significant impact.

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