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Thread: What Is the Value of Instrument Reviews?

  1. #1

    What Is the Value of Instrument Reviews?

    Reviews are interesting, if entirely without actual value. Endorsers are only in it for the money.

    My principle instrument is the drums and the world of drum kits really is an appalling cesspool of the professional opinion-giver and brand tart. Billy Cobham, anyone?

    The only thing to do is test the hooters yourself and entrust the actual sound to a friend of tutor with decent ears. I never trust what I hear as being an authentic record of what noise is actually coming out of the end, or “spout” as Lyndon Baglin put it.

    My only criterion for a euphonium is does it make a pleasing sound? Every other facet can be adjusted or developed.

    I remember a guy coming to the music shop I worked and trying six Besson Prestige euphoniums and rejected them all because top c# didn’t speak properly. Hours of wasted time on a note that he would play not even 0.025% of the time. He’d convinced himself that was the most important thing and because he’d come by himself then confused himself. He’d been told what to think by other people, and read every conceivable review imaginable.

    Reviews are, in my opinion, completely without merit, although it is interesting to see people tie themselves in knots trying to explain, or worse, demonstrate what they think.

  2. Magikarp,

    The group that volunteered to review the Sinfonico (myself included) are NOT being paid, have no business connection with Wessex whatsoever, personally own (or have owned) most of the top line horns from Adams, Besson, Miraphone, Sterling, Yamaha and others and have collectively over 200 years of euphonium experience at a professional or high amateur level.

    Our work and commitment to review these horns may be without value to you, but I would suggest that detailed evaluations of ergonomics, mechanical issues, fit, finish, and subjective playability by musicians who are systematic in their process do have merit. OF COURSE, nothing replaces any players own experience with an instrument. Even better, having a set of listening ears of a teacher, professional artist, or fellow musical collaborator when you evaluate an instrument.

    When I play tested my Sterling, I had the advantage of doing it at Paul Riggett's shop with Trevor Groom as my designated listener/co-evaluator during one of my frequent trips to England. However, here in the US, we are so geographically dispersed, and the accessibility of shops that carry an inventory of representative instruments is so remote for most of us, that having some feedback from a variety of independent evaluators is useful for narrowing down one's choices. For example, shipping an instrument 1/2 way across the country for purposes of evaluation can cost $75-$150 depending on carrier and weight. Many shops will front the cost of shipment one way, if you want to evaluate an instrument (usually for 7-14 days) for purchase. However, if you choose not to purchase, you end up paying the freight to return it (at minimum) or (more often) both ways.

    Choose to be skeptical if you will, but I think the idea of having four diverse performers from the western, mid-west, and eastern US with varying backgrounds spend their own time evaluating new instruments independently from the vendor has merit.

    Doug

    P.S. And thanks to Dave Werden for maintaining this forum for so many years and keeping it free of mud-slinging and reckless opinion.
    Last edited by daruby; 07-04-2021 at 09:59 AM.
    Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
    Concord Band
    Winchendon Winds
    Townsend Military Band

  3. #3
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    I’d add that in solo work the high C# is far more common than that poster thinks. Even in brass band test pieces.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelSchott View Post
    I’d add that in solo work the high C# is far more common than that poster thinks. Even in brass band test pieces.
    And there is a very exposed C# in Holst's The Planets (orchestra version). It would be a heck of a note to miss if you got to play an orch gig!
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
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  5. Dave,

    Don't forget the infamous concert B-natural in the slow intro section of Pantomime. I must admit, my 2007 Prestige 2051-2 had a miserable C# (B-nat). You learn to deal with it, My Sterling is not great and my Adams is better. But doing 1/16 note lip slurs from E-nat to B-nat (all on 2nd valve) every day helps a lot

    Doug
    Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
    Concord Band
    Winchendon Winds
    Townsend Military Band

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Summerfield, Florida Sturgis, SD (summers)
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    And how about the B natural (C# treble) on the optional ending (who DOESN'T play that) of James Curnow's Rhapsody for Euphonium!!??

    What is the best ever B natural on a euphonium? - Miraphone M5050. Plays just like any other note. My Adams is good, but not perfect. Always gives me something to work on, like Doug.

    Doug - Linda (wife) read this entire thread and wants to send you cookies!! (That is a GOOD thing)
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium,
    1973 F. E. Olds & Son Studio Model T-31 Baritone
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Year Round Except Summer:
    Kingdom of the Sun (KOS) Concert Band, Ocala, FL (Euphonium)
    KOS Brass Quintet (Trombone, Euphonium)
    Summer Only:
    Rapid City Municipal Band, Rapid City, SD (Euphonium)
    Rapid City New Horizons Band (Euphonium)

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Summerville (SC)
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    Daruby+++!

    It saddens me to read reductionist posts alleging an inherent uselessness of shared experiences, including reviews/evaluations.... Does remind me of the depressing Pilatian "What is Truth?"

    While a single review of a horn or other device may -- in some cases -- yield a partial or even unwittingly misleading picture of the target, multiple points of view do reduce the uncertainty by reinforcing shared aspects.

    True enough, even a full set of reviews such as this Sinfonico travelling project is unlikely to yeald a perfect portrait of any euphonium, yet what the reader/listener is able to grok from written findings and assorted media music clips is enormously more illuminating than the absolute fog of having to wait for the nexgt ITEC in 2023 without any personal comparative experience

    And even a personal experience and preferences does not negate the value of reviews posted by professionals and other respected members of the community.

    Thus.... Please do continue to share your findings of Sinfonico and other euphoniums, and... Post music clips if you can.

    Regards, Guido

    PS. What about a future Shires Q40/Q41 joint review project?
    M5050L - DC2&3, SM2&4U, BT16, Carbonaria Heavy & New
    Wessex EP104 Festivo - available
    Carolbrass CCR7772 Bb cornet - Available

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by davewerden View Post
    And there is a very exposed C# in Holst's The Planets (orchestra version). It would be a heck of a note to miss if you got to play an orch gig!

    ...and have a look at the 1st Tenor Tuba part to the Janacek Sinfionetta. I think there are about 21 consecutive of those B naturals. Add to that the Alec Wilder Sonata, that STARTS on that B natural and goes down in a chordal pattern.
    Last edited by Snorlax; 07-04-2021 at 12:37 PM.
    Jim Williams N9EJR (love 10 meter CW)
    Formerly Principal Euphonium in a whole
    bunch of groups, now just a schlub.
    Shires Q41, Yamaha 321, 621 Baritone
    Wick 4AL, Wessex 4Y, or whatever I grab.
    Conn 50H trombone, Blue P-bone
    www.soundcloud.com/jweuph

  9. Magikarp, unlike the drums where your position in relation to playing means you can mostly accurately hear the sound others hear… with brass instruments you are behind the sound, projecting the sound away from you….

    This make others opinions helpful, recording yourself has other technical complications or limitations that can effect the purity of the sound, and hearing others play your instrument will sound different from you playing it.

    (If I hit your nice sounding drums it sounds the same as when you hit them).

    So a mixture of recordings and opinions is all you have to go on to begin making an informed decision or narrowing down the selection from the wide variety of instruments out there. After that you are correct, you need to try the horn and see how it makes you to feel when you play it.

    With new instruments there are often returns policies to protect you if you don’t agree with the reviewers remarks. Not always the same case with used, and with most companies forced to distance selling this is currently difficult to negotiate when trying and buying…

    If I try an instrument and seeing fairly consistent reviews and points being made, then find myself having a similar experience, this helps me reassure myself that I am not going mad, or to reaffirm my own decision. This the input of others is helpful, even if taken with a healthy pinch of salt.

    Endorsed reviews are a completely different beast, and definitely should be taken for the advertisement tool they are, rather than a genuine review, but this forum has reviews with no such endorsement issue, and is providing a valuable service.

    Skepticism is healthy, but outright dismissal is perspective limiting.

  10. #10
    Not to mention that on the horn mentioned (the besson prestige), that note has a tendency to be a dog. I’ve played 5 or 6 examples of a prestige, and it’s been “not bad” on one of them. (The one I currently own).

    I’ll agree with John that the 5050 has a good one. My Adams E3 was good as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelSchott View Post
    I’d add that in solo work the high C# is far more common than that poster thinks. Even in brass band test pieces.
    Mike Taylor

    Illinois Brass Band
    Fox Valley Brass Band

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