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Jim Tests the Wessex Sinfonico--Part One

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  • Snorlax
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2007
    • 1003

    Jim Tests the Wessex Sinfonico--Part One

    As part of the “Beta Boys” euphonium testing team, I had the opportunity to work with the Wessex Sinfonico euphonium for a week or so.

    Since John Morgan has given us a set of videos demonstrating the Sinfonico and Dave will produce his Grammy-winning demos, I’ll spare you my own screeching. Instead, I’ll comment on my very positive experiences with it during the trial period. Pictures will follow as soon as I can take time off a monstrous Finale project.

    *First, a word about Wessex: I called James with a couple of questions and had a nice discussion. My questions, of course, were answered completely. As a former professor of business administration, I have been consistently impressed by the concern at Wessex for customer service and quality control. All evidence points to the fact that customers can purchase from Wessex with total confidence.

    *TONE QUALITY: The Sinfonico has a full, resonant tone, as you heard from John and will hear from Dave. It’s perhaps a bit lighter than my NEO, but it blended very well with the other euphoniums in the Indianapolis Brass Choir—one gold-lacquer Prestige, one Adams, and one Hirsbrunner. The compensating range was full and responsive. I’d put the Sinfonico in the tonal category of a Hirsbrunner, which is certainly a compliment.

    *DESIGN: As you see in the photo, the Sinfonico is slightly longer and a bit narrower than my NEO and the location of the mouthpipe is a bit different. Per Ann’s request, I have included a picture of the Sinfonico being held while I’m seated; I’m a bit over six feet tall. I am very fond of the 11-inch bell on the Sinfonico, as I feel it projected nicely without edge when I played it on a couple of tunes with the Brass Choir in its rehearsal last Thursday. The Sinfonico blended well with horns (French, not tenor), trombones, and tubas when I played it in rehearsal. Given the interchangeable receivers in the mouthpipe and the straight-shot tubing from the third valve into the fourth (see photos), the Sinfonico reminds me of a Hirsbrunner except for the smaller bell. The straighter third-fourth- valve tube in the Sinfonico should lead to smoother response in the compensating register. Conversely, the Sinfonico’s mouthpipe is more angular than my NEO; I’m not sure what the acoustic consequences of that are—if any—but I certainly didn’t feel or hear any consequence. I found the Sinfonico to be a well-developed concept.

    *CONSTRUCTION: An inspection of the Sinfonico exposed no visible solder blobs, misaligned slides, or plating issues. All slides moved smoothly and easily, but I did have a SLIGHT bit of difficulty with threading on the second and third valves, but was able to remove and replace the caps with a small bit of drag in a spot or two. I can confirm John’s experience with the fourth-valve latch not retracting all the way, and it did fall back on the valve stem once or twice. If that’s all I have to gripe about, then Wessex has a real winner here. I also noticed that there was no brace midway between the tubes of the long third-valve slide as there is on my NEO. There are, however, TWO braces connecting the third-valve slide to the body of the horn, whereas my NEO has only one. I felt no lack of resonance anywhere on the horn, let alone on the third valve. The Sinfonico’s mouthpipe is braced differently from my NEO as well. I have come to learn that bracing decisions can influence response, and the Sinfonico certainly responds admirably in all registers at any dynamic level. So the well-designed concept of the Sinfonico has certainly been well executed.

    *VALVES: Very smooth with no drag and no signs of poor machining. I also noticed that there are fewer/smaller “bumps” inside the caucades than I am accustomed to seeing. That HAS to help airflow through the valves and improve response.

    *TUNING: I found no egregious intonation problems with the Sinfonico; the “usual suspects” of quirky intonation were easily lippable. I found the high B to work ok—for me--with third valve and the D above it—for me--with force and 1-2. Tuning was fine from the pedal register up to double-high B flat. Compared to my NEO, the Sinfonico doesn’t appear to be terribly sensitive to mouthpieces; I used the included Wessex mouthpiece, a Wick 4AL, a Mead 3.5, and a DC4 (see picture). No one mouthpiece provided any significant advantage or detriment, and response/tuning remained constant across mouthpieces.

    *ACCESSORIES: Wessex is very generous in its inclusion of TWO main tuning slides and the three sizes of interchangeable receivers. While John preferred the longer slide, I found the shorter slide to fit me better, but I have needed to shorten MTSs on almost every one of the 856 compensating euphoniums I have ever owned. THANK YOU, Wessex, for this courtesy!! While John noted some difficulty in removing the receiver, I had no such difficulty (we had different horns to test). The included 4Y mouthpiece is in the 26mm class with a slightly larger throat than the 4AL or DC4. The 4Y’s exterior bears a slight resemblance to a “Dr. Young” tuba mouthpiece but (fortunately) does not duplicate its inner structure. See attached photo of DC4, SM 3.5, Wessex 4Y, and Wick 4AL. The case is well made and padded in the “soft hard case” style and holds the horn well; the outside pouch can hold music and accessories comfortably. John’s folio must be larger than mine, which fit ok into the exterior pouch.

    *CONCLUSION: The Wessex Sinfonico is an excellent instrument…it’s one of those instruments for which one is tempted to say “it’s a fine horn for the money.” NO. It’s just a fine instrument, period…well-designed and well-constructed. I second John’s opinion that the Sinfonico would serve well as one’s only euphonium. I also appreciate Wessex’s devotion to “kaizen”-style continuous improvement. Thanks to Jonathan and James for allowing me the pleasure of working with the Sinfonico!
    Last edited by Snorlax; 06-27-2021, 03:48 PM.
    Jim Williams N9EJR (love 10 meter CW)
    Formerly Principal Euphonium in a whole
    bunch of groups, now just a schlub.
    Shires Q41, Yamaha 321, 621 Baritone
    Wick 4AL, Wessex 4Y, or whatever I grab.
    Conn 50H trombone, Blue P-bone
    www.soundcloud.com/jweuph
  • John Morgan
    Moderator
    • Apr 2014
    • 1885

    #2
    Very nice review, Jim. I will avoid much elaboration at this point, until all 4 of the reviews are in. But I am happy to see that you found the Sinfonico to be a fine horn, as I did.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium,
    1973 F. E. Olds & Son Studio Model T-31 Baritone
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Year Round Except Summer:
    Kingdom of the Sun (KOS) Concert Band, Ocala, FL (Euphonium)
    KOS Brass Quintet (Trombone, Euphonium)
    Summer Only:
    Rapid City Municipal Band, Rapid City, SD (Euphonium)
    Rapid City New Horizons Band (Euphonium)

    Comment

    • Richard III
      Member
      • Nov 2019
      • 142

      #3
      Deleted
      Last edited by Richard III; 06-28-2021, 03:43 PM.
      Richard


      King 1130 Flugabone
      King 2280 Euphonium
      King 10J Tuba
      Conn 22B Trumpet

      Comment

      • guidocorona
        Senior Member
        • Jun 2018
        • 483

        #4
        Hello Jim, thank you for the detailed review of Sinfonico!

        Yet, may I try to persuade you to record and post some clips.... Put Sinfonico through its paces across its range and expressivity with some of your favorite mouthpieces.

        Unfortunately, words alone cannot truly yield the character of a euphonium, no matter how excellent the review might be.

        Looking forward to hearing you playing Sinfonico… Best regards, Guido
        M5050L - DC2&3, SM2&4U, BT16, Carbonaria Heavy & New
        Wessex EP104 Festivo - available
        Carolbrass CCR7772 Bb cornet - Available

        Comment

        • Snorlax
          Senior Member
          • Mar 2007
          • 1003

          #5
          Guido,
          Please check out John's recordings, and I'm sure Dave will make a few. It doesn't get much better than that. My setup would most likely not present the instrument to its actual sonic quality.
          If I keep the instrument a day or two more, I might see what I can do, but I am anxious to get the horn to its next stop, and I assume the next person is
          waiting anxiously for its arrival. I've asked for the shipping label to send it on. I'm happy to answer any questions you or anyone may have about the Sinfonico.
          Jim
          Jim Williams N9EJR (love 10 meter CW)
          Formerly Principal Euphonium in a whole
          bunch of groups, now just a schlub.
          Shires Q41, Yamaha 321, 621 Baritone
          Wick 4AL, Wessex 4Y, or whatever I grab.
          Conn 50H trombone, Blue P-bone
          www.soundcloud.com/jweuph

          Comment

          • Richard III
            Member
            • Nov 2019
            • 142

            #6
            I'm going to apologize if I offend anyone. Someone telling me the horn sounds great has little value. I'm "up to here" with people raving about whatever new instrument they just bought. Also about the new technique that has resulted "amazing range and tonality." None of that matters when you can't hear it. Again, apologizing to anyone who might be offended, but, the world is full of people claiming all kinds of things. I want to hear what comes out the bell. I want to hear what comes out the bell of multiple players. If I hear a less than optimal sound coming from one player, I ask if it is the player, the horn and the recording method. If I hear non desirable sounds coming from all the players, I conclude that the horn in question is not the one for me. Obviously the reverse is also the case. Too many times everybody piles on with rave reviews and I wonder what they were hearing.

            I would very much appreciate a video.
            Richard


            King 1130 Flugabone
            King 2280 Euphonium
            King 10J Tuba
            Conn 22B Trumpet

            Comment

            • Davidus1
              Senior Member
              • Jul 2008
              • 622

              #7
              I appreciate the comments and the time it took to put this together. Given that this is being done for free and on Jim's personal time I appreciate it even more. If you look at some of the other posts about the Sinfonico you should see that there are some videos available. I appreciate it when anyone takes the time to share their thoughts and opinions. This is a hobby for most of us and a life long passion.
              John 3:16


              Conn Victor 5H Trombone
              Yamaha 354 Trombone
              Conn 15I Euphonium

              Comment

              • Snorlax
                Senior Member
                • Mar 2007
                • 1003

                #8
                Richard III:
                As I have stated, John Morgan has provided a marvelous set of pieces played on the Sinfonico. I most highly recommend them to your attention.
                Jim Williams N9EJR (love 10 meter CW)
                Formerly Principal Euphonium in a whole
                bunch of groups, now just a schlub.
                Shires Q41, Yamaha 321, 621 Baritone
                Wick 4AL, Wessex 4Y, or whatever I grab.
                Conn 50H trombone, Blue P-bone
                www.soundcloud.com/jweuph

                Comment

                • Jharris
                  Member
                  • Jun 2021
                  • 61

                  #9
                  Richard, unless people reviewing the instrument have professional recording equipment and the knowledge on how to get a mix that matches what the recorder is hearing you aren’t going to get what you are looking for.

                  My own recording were done on an iPhone, which is why it was compared to another instrument, also any short comings are definitely the player…

                  Johns’s recordings were done with decent equipment, but, and I might be wrong, seemed close miked, that doesn’t always give you how it sounds within the room from an audience perspective, but again there are comparisons to the Sinfonico and the Adams, so you get like for like, kind of…

                  I know that I have grown, and will continue to grow, more comfortable with the instrument with my usage, so my personal sound has improved further, will that be picked up on with an iPhone?

                  I will try and post something up to appease you, but honestly buy it, try it for yourself and if you don’t like it, return it.

                  That was my plan, and I haven’t returned it, and unlike the reviewers, who always intended to return it, my hard earned money was on the line, but weirdly, my experiences of it line up with the other reviewers.

                  Comment

                  • Richard III
                    Member
                    • Nov 2019
                    • 142

                    #10
                    Thanks everyone.

                    I would not purchase one of these, at least so far. John's recording of the Sinfonico did not give me the sound I'm looking for. Further, any maker who has to send out multiple slides to correct tuning issues makes me suspicious that the original design is flawed.

                    I look forward to hearing more testers as they come out.
                    Richard


                    King 1130 Flugabone
                    King 2280 Euphonium
                    King 10J Tuba
                    Conn 22B Trumpet

                    Comment

                    • davewerden
                      Administrator
                      • Nov 2005
                      • 11137

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Richard III View Post
                      I would not purchase one of these, at least so far. John's recording of the Sinfonico did not give me the sound I'm looking for.
                      Among the expensive top brands, the sound varies quite a bit from one to the other, so it could indeed be a factor in one's choice at any price point. I'll try to do a comparison in a large room so it gives a more "audience-experience" result, but it could simply be that you are looking for a different sound.

                      Originally posted by Richard III View Post
                      ...any maker who has to send out multiple slides to correct tuning issues makes me suspicious that the original design is flawed.
                      Based on Adams' experience with European vs. USA players, I would not take that as a problem. Some of us have mentioned that they wish the Adams tuning loop was shorter, because they have the MTS all the way in, or most of the way in, for routine playing. But European users are saying they would like to not have to pull so far!
                      Dave Werden (ASCAP)
                      Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
                      Adams Artist (Adams E3)
                      Alliance Mouthpiece DC3, Wick 4AL, Wick 4ABL
                      YouTube: dwerden
                      Facebook: davewerden
                      Twitter: davewerden
                      Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

                      Comment

                      • Jharris
                        Member
                        • Jun 2021
                        • 61

                        #12
                        I would second David’s sentiments there, the Sinfonico is a slightly different sound profile, just like Yamaha and Besson have different sound profiles, I think being able to line this euph up with other professional instruments and then it come down to the choice between users personal preferences is a testament to Wessex.

                        I have a Schimmel piano rather than an equivalent Yamaha for the very simple reason that I preferred the tone, not because Yamaha are rubbish, far from it, and it’s the same principle.

                        European vs American players differences in embouchure and therefore tone and blowing, might, and this is pure speculation come from a heritage of Besson Vs Willson (I think that is the traditionally predominant brand in America?) and growing up compensating for each brand’s quirks. Then when you play a different model with different quirks you get slightly different responses, until as a player you adjust.

                        I have moved the MTS up half an inch since initially tuning it, if it ever gets to the point where it is all the way in it can be swapped out for the smaller version… on my end that is no hassle because I already own it, if I found that with a Besson, I would either find the instrument to be faulty, or blame myself, but have to pay extra to resolve the issue, the later might be expensive and irreversible, affecting resale…

                        Richard, it sounds like you have made up your mind for whatever reason, but I will say that my experience has increased my faith that if I had gone for a John Packer 374 Stirling or a Jupiter 1270 XO that they too would have been similarly high quality and that the decision would come down to a choice of sound profile.

                        The JP374 sounded decent on paper but didn’t really have independent reviews, they all seemed to be affiliated, that put me off…
                        The Jupiter XO didn’t sound like it had enough core sound and a previous experience with a terrible student model 15 years ago, put me off that choice too.

                        I thought the Wessex was worth a punt because I could see a customer service happening, it was handmade, and a smaller bell, people played on Dolces bought a few years ago and still rate them but seemed to view the Sinfonico as a step up in build quality.

                        The reasons that put me off other instruments , I can see now are because of mostly preconceived and outdated mind sets regarding Chinese instruments.

                        York came and went in a short few years, people rated them as the new Besson of our generation, until they suddenly didn’t, Wessex have been going longer, and have expanded offerings into odd unique instruments, another plus…

                        I think the buying of any of these “professional” marketed brass instruments needs to be down to the buyer to ultimately decide, but I think it will come down to the personal sound profile preferences of the buyer as opposed to a quality issue…

                        Your views may vary, but the instruments do as they are designed, so do the people playing them… any shortcomings are 100% mine at this point, not the instruments.

                        Comment

                        • Richard III
                          Member
                          • Nov 2019
                          • 142

                          #13
                          I have not completely made up my mind. I look forward to comparisons as this gives much additional information. As a sound standard, my favorite is the Shires Q41. I have played one and it was pretty perfect in every way, except the price. Almost $6000 is more than "I should" spend. So I've been looking for alternatives.

                          I tried JP also and did not like it. I found the tone to be a bit coarse and the response very uneven.

                          So I am again, much anticipating Mr. Werden's review and videos.
                          Richard


                          King 1130 Flugabone
                          King 2280 Euphonium
                          King 10J Tuba
                          Conn 22B Trumpet

                          Comment

                          • MichaelSchott
                            Senior Member
                            • Mar 2012
                            • 474

                            #14
                            Ultimately it comes down to personal preferences. It’s rarely possible to play all the horns we want to try so these reviews at least give strong hints to their qualities. My recent decision to order an Adams Custom E3 was based mostly on the expert comments I read on this site. They coincided with what I was looking for in a new horn. I am fortunate that it was in my budget. Truthfully, the Willson 2900 I’ve played for 40 years is hard to replace. I think I’d only consider the E3, gold 2052 or one of the Shires horns.

                            Comment

                            • Jharris
                              Member
                              • Jun 2021
                              • 61

                              #15
                              Michael, that’s the amazing thing, not too long ago you had one or two brands if you wanted the acceptable “professional” standard…

                              At Uni, we would often swap instruments to see how such and such instrument was like, and the differences were often crazily varied and the only difference was the players…

                              I never liked the old prestige’s (pre 2007) thought it was stuffy, but how many players have played on them and sounded fantastic?

                              Everyone liked my Stirling virtuoso, sadly it was only a band instrument, so not mine to keep, but they aren’t the choice of some of the biggest names Child’s/Mead etc.

                              Steven Mead doesn’t rate the Globe stamp sovereigns, yet how many wax lyrical about them being the best ever? In any case I would guess good ones have seen better days 40yrs later…

                              Buying online and trusting a returns policy is as good as it has been for any new instrument buyers during the pandemic, for anyone pushing a 7-8k+ budget they will almost certainly be happy with what they choose. Above 1.5k means different choices, and in someways a little more risk, especially when used, but if shipping is to much of a hassle/costly/stressful perhaps it’s better to just wait another few months and let the shops open more normally and the trade shows resume so it’s easier to make these decisions between instruments.

                              I have never heard the adjective coarse associated with any brass instrument, even some awful ones… was it easy to be overblown? My first band insisted I play baritone for contests, and my tone, because I didn’t prepare on it until contest day, was, because I blew it like a euphonium, fuzzy… I wonder if my fuzzy and your coarse are similar meanings…?

                              I actually liked the JP 374 tone from the videos I saw, but they were mostly sponsored by JP, so I assumed some sound engineer was artificially affecting the tonal quality, which made me hesitant.

                              The only thing that swung the Wessex punt was their presence on here, and the fact that any issues or concerns raised were answered logically and honestly, no sales waffle.

                              Comment

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