Question on the turn

[Roger]

"Robin Adair", No. 1 of Arban's melodies in the Art of Phrasing has a turn in measure 6. The direction of the 1st curve (down) tells me that it's an inverted turn. Am I correct? I've seen several videos of that melody played on YouTube, and it sounds as if they're playing a regular turn. In one video, a trumpet teacher states that it is to be played as a regular turn (base note, then next note up . . . ). What am I missing?

[John Morgan]

Hmm, in my Arban's book, I show the turn (gruppetto) on "Robin Adair" as an ascending turn.

Here is a little image:


The top left example is an ascending turn, like the one in the "Robin Adair" piece. The top right example is an inverted or descending turn.

[John Morgan]

Interesting question! I've always done it going up first, but apparently that is not the only way. See the following two images from the Library of Congress:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]8408[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]8409[/ATTACH]

Do you have the image that you intended to post? Or the part of the image? I see no turns in the image.

[davewerden]

Do you have the image that you intended to post? Or the part of the image? I see no turns in the image.

I just deleted the post. My eyes are tired and I didn't notice that the written-out turn "started" on the same note and then went up.

[Roger]

I took a pic of the measure I'm referring to, but don't know how to attach the image. Any help?

[Roger]

[John Morgan]

When you write a post, there are a bunch of icons on the top of the posting box. Hover your mouse over the ones toward the right end, one of them is "image". Put your cursor in the post where you want to insert a picture (jpg or png for example), then click the image icon. Then you can upload the picture from your computer to the post. It will show up as something like this "". But when you post the message, the image will appear. Looks like my latest motorcycle got posted as I was writing this post, oops. Oh well, its a nice bike.

[Roger]

[John Morgan]

Indeed!! Your turn is an inverted turn! The one in my Arban's book is ascending. Very interesting.

[Roger]

John, I'm working off my phone -- no computer, no mouse. Maybe that limits me.

[davewerden]

UPLOADING AN IMAGE: Click the image icon in the post's header - it is 3 icons to the right of the smiley face. Then use the button in the popup window to find the file, and then click the text link to upload it.

FWIW, I have 4 Arban books in my studio. ALL THREE treble clef versions show in inverted turn (down first). However, the bass clef Bowman/Alessi version shows an normal turn. I think a player could make either one work. In the very old editions (for voice and other media) I see just a little squiggle, but it goes up before it goes down.

This is a notated folk song, and I have to think folk singers not using music may have ornamented all kind of ways on various notes, and then editors later added... who knows what. Just make it sound good!

[Roger]

I have the 1982 copyright, red cover, gold circle middle of the cover.

[Roger]

I didn't think about differences in clef or editions -- should have. Just play as written and execute it well!

[Roger]

Thnx for the help on images.

[John Morgan]

Well, I was going to take a picture of the piece in my Arban's, a fairly current version, but I think we have beat this horse dead. But it was great fun!