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Thread: Adams E3 Reverse Slide retrofit

  1. #1

    Adams E3 Reverse Slide retrofit

    All,

    Here is the finished product on my Adams E3 that I took in for repair. The alignment was so bad you can see the degree of bend in the fix to get the horn in alignment. At the same time, because Adams has switched their E3s to use a reverse main tuning slide, my horn was retrofitted the same, the thinking being that this change was made to facilitate response and remove secondary vibrations. So far, so good, although I don't have much time on the horn since the change. I can say the horn feels completely different, in a good way. So far no annoying trigger assembly vibrations either, at least any that are consistent enough to cause problems.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Photo Jun 18, 6 24 37 PM.jpg   Photo Jun 18, 6 25 05 PM.jpg   Photo Jun 18, 6 26 47 PM (3).jpg   Photo Jun 18, 6 24 52 PM.jpg   Photo Jun 18, 6 26 47 PM.jpg  

    Photo Jun 18, 6 24 44 PM.jpg   Photo Jun 18, 6 25 00 PM.jpg   Photo Jun 18, 6 26 47 PM (4).jpg  
    Last edited by JakeGuilbo; 06-20-2021 at 01:22 PM.
    Adams E3 0.6 with SS Bell
    K&G 3.5D
    ---------------------------------
    Founder and Solo Euphonium
    San Francisco Brass Band

  2. #2
    Jake,

    So if I am seeing this correctly, the larger leg on the MTS stays the same, but the smaller leg on the slide now goes "over" the receiving piece by the 4th valve, correct? One leg goes one way, the other leg goes the other way, like a trombone main tuning slide?

    I see this as an improvement, particularly when the Main Tuning Slide (MTS) has a trigger mechanism attached. The slide legs on this configuration need to be looser fitting, and with the previous configuration, it is possible (and likely) that some moisture/water would seep out of the slide leg area with the looser tolerances (which it does on mine without some heavier grease on the slide leg). With the reverse leg configuration, the moisture would just simply run down and collect in the bottom crook of the MTS to be emptied with the spit valve. A much better situation. Which makes me wonder why both sides of the MTS legs were not "reversed". But wait, I just looked at my horn and figured that out. The larger leg would not need to be reversed as the air (and water) are coming from the 4th valve tubing and continuing around the bends towards the bell, so no need to reverse it on the larger leg. That makes sense to me, hope it does to the readers. Look at your 3+1 euphonium as I did.

    Besides the leaking moisture issue, which I am not sure if that had anything to do with this change in the MTS configuration, I suppose the change might be for better facility in using the trigger mechanism. And perhaps to reduce buzzing (secondary vibrations as you say above).

    I think this is a very useful change to the Adams. I don't see the need for this with a regular MTS with no trigger, but when you have a trigger, I think this is a very good change.
    Last edited by John Morgan; 06-21-2021 at 03:16 PM.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Wessex TE-360 Bombino Eb Tuba
    Rapid City New Horizons & Municipal Bands (Euphonium)
    Black Hills Symphony Orchestra (Bass Trombone), Powder River Symphony, Gillette, WY (Tenor Trombone)
    Black Hills Brass Quintet (Tuba)

  3. #3
    Thanks John. You're right in your description, trumpet players have this done also, the technical term for it is "reverse slide." The main benefit they claim is that there is no "bump" of downstream air hitting the front of the slide. Seems like snake oil to me, not knowing anything about anything. My technician, Scott Mandeville at Tim's Music, thought though it would be the best thing for us to do to reduce the vibrations. The bigger problem was with the alignment. You can see just how out of alignment it was.
    Adams E3 0.6 with SS Bell
    K&G 3.5D
    ---------------------------------
    Founder and Solo Euphonium
    San Francisco Brass Band

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by JakeGuilbo View Post
    The main benefit they claim is that there is no "bump" of downstream air hitting the front of the slide.
    That's my understanding as well, and matches some old discussions I had with Sterling. The best condition you can create for the response is to have all slides pushed all the way in (which closes the gap and eliminates any "bump"). Of course, that ain't gonna happen for real people in the real world.

    It's a concept in the clarinet world. To tune the instrument you pull two sections apart slightly, which creates a gap. So they have "tuning rings" to fill the gap. The rings come in various thicknesses. I thought about something similar for euphonium until I tried to figure out how in the world one would remove a good-fitting shim once it was in place!
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC4)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  5. #5
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    Hope that design change for your MTS helps with vibration problem you were having. Makes sense to me about removing the ‘bump’ in the airstream. The Miraphone 5050 MTS is a “reverse” design. I like that feature myself.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton Brandon Jones sig mpc
    YEP-641S (on long-term loan to grandson)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    Russian Christmas Music (Alfred Reed)
    Russian Sailor's Dance (Reinhold Gliere
    )

  6. #6
    I always have a giggle at that "bump in the airstream" business. You're going to have a small bump either way. Is it constricting or expanding? and is it at one spot or 3 inches away at a different spot? There is a small low-pressure stream of air going through the instrument, but it's a vibrating column of air that does the work. Nevertheless, anything you do to the construction of an instrument is going to change it in some way, and if this works mechanically better I'm all for it.
    --
    Barry

  7. #7
    Hmmm, I hadn't considered the "bump" in the airway thing. I am kind of with Barry on this, as there is a bump with either design, slide in or out being immaterial.

    But back to my first discussion. For main tuning slides that have triggers attached and therefore looser tolerances to allow for easy in/out movement, you can easily get water leaking out of the slide on the 4th valve side as I did on my Adams. Not gushing, but little droplets from time to time. I used heavier grease, which sort of solved the leaking issue but created a less than ideal in/out movement of the slide with the heavier grease. So reversing that leg of the slide totally solves the leaking issue, and therefore, a lighter grease or other lubricant can be now used. Excellent choice in my opinion.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Wessex TE-360 Bombino Eb Tuba
    Rapid City New Horizons & Municipal Bands (Euphonium)
    Black Hills Symphony Orchestra (Bass Trombone), Powder River Symphony, Gillette, WY (Tenor Trombone)
    Black Hills Brass Quintet (Tuba)

  8. #8
    Had a brass band rehearsal last night for a local Salvation Army group and received many, many compliments on the sound I was producing, more so than I had before in this group. The horn finally "feels" like an Adams horn when I play it, something that I feel was missing previously. I tried to record a similar excerpt after the fix to one I had on my phone and at the same distance, same phone, same recording app, same volume I distort the mic so much now than I ever had before with this horn. I am not a recording engineer and don't know anything about this but I guess this means something? Maybe I was playing louder than before and that's all it means but it feels like the sound has more resonance and overtones now.
    Adams E3 0.6 with SS Bell
    K&G 3.5D
    ---------------------------------
    Founder and Solo Euphonium
    San Francisco Brass Band

  9. #9
    Glad that Adams is working for you!! Nothing like an Adams horn and a happy Adams horn owner/player!! Life is good!!
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Wessex TE-360 Bombino Eb Tuba
    Rapid City New Horizons & Municipal Bands (Euphonium)
    Black Hills Symphony Orchestra (Bass Trombone), Powder River Symphony, Gillette, WY (Tenor Trombone)
    Black Hills Brass Quintet (Tuba)

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