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Thread: Comparing 2 Alliance Mouthpieces: DC3 and DC4

  1. It's great to hear you play these side by side. I've typically been a fan of some of the larger sizes simply because of how they feel to play, really without regard for how they sound. I tend to think I can make it sound the way I want, but I can't change the feel. But I'm probably wrong about that. I started playing big 1 1/4g mouthpieces on euph, but I realized after a while that didn't really work. Then I tried 1 1/2 size, and it was better, but still not right. My trombone mouthpieces didn't really work either. Recently I've been playing SM3U and then SM3. As I gradually get smaller, the horns starts sounding better and better.

    Your recordings show the sound difference in clarity and brilliance with the smaller mouthpiece. It's not something I'd probably pick up on without hearing the two pieces side by side like that. I will look for smaller yet mouthpieces to get the mud out of my sound. Thanks so much!
    Last edited by hyperbolica; 09-07-2021 at 10:57 AM.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by hyperbolica View Post
    It's great to hear you play these side by side. I've typically been a fan of some of the larger sizes simply because of how they feel to play, really without regard for how they sound. I tend to think I can make it sound the way I want, but I can't change the feel. But I'm probably wrong about that. I started playing big 1 1/4g mouthpieces on euph, but I realized after a while that didn't really work. Then I tried 1 1/2 size, and it was better, but still not right. My trombone mouthpieces didn't really work either. Recently I've been playing SM3U and then SM3. As I gradually get smaller, the horns starts sounding better and better.

    Your recordings show the sound difference in clarity and brilliance with the smaller mouthpiece. It's not something I'd probably pick up on without hearing the two pieces side by side like that. I will look for smaller yet mouthpieces to get the mud out of my sound. Thanks so much!
    That is something I've been struggling with for years. Obviously we want a large, dark (at least to some extent) sound for a euphonium. If we go too far in that direction we lose the singing quality of the euphonium and start to sound more like a tuba (Note: I'm not saying tubas can't be made to "sing" in the hands of a good player!). I'll restate that if my primary job was playing the Holst 2nd Suite, my 4AL did all I could ask. And frankly it was a fine all-around mouthpiece. But we play many styles of music, including some that are well-packed with fast notes, and a smaller mouthpiece with better focus will help those notes be more audible. That helps the lines be more apparent, which brings out the music to the audience.

    In the middle of that last sentence I realized I could type words all day and not "decide" this issue. Recordings help us decide, and also feeling the mouthpiece on our chops as we blow air and play through different ranges. So I'll just say that for ME the DC4 was better OVERALL than the DC3 or 4AL.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  3. #13
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    Hello Dave, after listening to your comparisons of 4AL vs DC3 and DC4, I received a wonderful birthday gift in the form of a brand spanking new DC4 in silver plate livery... That was about a month ago, and am still happily suffering from acute Honey-moon syndrome.

    While my technical skills are still substandard, I found DC4 to produce a silky shimmering tone on my Wessex Festivo, which makes me fall in love with euphonium even more deeply than before.

    Amongst other things, it seems that DC4 makes me a little more precise and snappier in transitions between notes than with SM4U and 4AL..... And while I occasionally miss the slightly darker and perhaps bolder tone of SM4U, there is just something magic with DC4 that I have not experienced with the other two mouthpieces... And yes, I am practicing more

    Regards, Guido
    Last edited by guidocorona; 09-07-2021 at 04:38 PM.
    M5050L - DC2&3, SM2&4U, BT16, Carbonaria Heavy & New
    Wessex EP104 Festivo - available
    Carolbrass CCR7772 Bb cornet - Available

  4. #14
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    Jun 2018
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    Summerville (SC)
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    Hi Mike (MikeTeachesClass), just sent you a PM... Re: DC2 & DC3.

    Regards, Guido
    M5050L - DC2&3, SM2&4U, BT16, Carbonaria Heavy & New
    Wessex EP104 Festivo - available
    Carolbrass CCR7772 Bb cornet - Available

  5. #15
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    How does the Alliance E2 fit in with these?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Larry Herzog Jr.

    All things EUPHONIUM! Guilded server

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by iMav View Post
    How does the Alliance E2 fit in with these?
    It is going to larger than the 3. The difference between the 3 and the 2 is greater than the difference between the 4 and 3.

    I have not tried it, but I'm guessing the 2 is among the mps that I think are too large for most euphonium players (unless they are doing a lot of bass parts and not many high parts).
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  7. #17
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    I definitely don’t like cup diameters smaller than 26.00 mm. (And like ones that are right at 26.00 mm)

    I’m anxious to give a few bigger ones a try. Have these on the way:

    - Warburton Demondrae Thurman - 26.16 mm
    - Alliance E2 - 26.40 mm
    - K&G Euphonium 3D - 26.70 mm
    Groups
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    Valley City State University Concert Band
    2024 North Dakota Intercollegiate Band (you're never too old!)


    Larry Herzog Jr.

    All things EUPHONIUM! Guilded server

  8. #18
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    Mar 2022
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    Quote Originally Posted by iMav View Post
    How does the Alliance E2 fit in with these?
    There are minor differences across the range but basics from memory...
    E2 is a 2 rim with a deep cup.
    E3A is a 3 rim with a standard cup.
    DC3 is a 3 rim with deep cup and extra mass.
    DC4 is a 4 rim with deep cup and extra mass.

    I've used the E2, E3A and DC3. Here is my experience, noting that everyone is very different with mouthpieces. The E3A, paired nicely with a Sovereign I was playing previously but I didn't like it on my new Prestige, I found it exacerbated the intonation challenges with the Prestige. I tried the E2 for a while on the Prestige, mainly because that was the mouthpiece it came with. It was really nice for low work and I found it really easy to get my intonation spot on but as Dave mentioned it's definitely more taxing on high parts and the minor benefits weren't worth the trade off in my view. The DC3 hits a sweet spot for me and seems to pair well with my Prestige. It's not perfect (no mouthpiece is) but it strikes the best balance for me as a player. I also got quite a few positive comments about my tone after I started using the DC3. So, after using the DC3 for a couple of months now, I've got no desire to go mouthpiece shopping again. Although it should be noted that I'm not someone who changes mouthpieces a lot. (e.g., I used the same trombone mouthpiece for 15 years (6 1/2AL) and when I changed it was only a small one to a 5GS which I've used for the past 5 years)
    SE Shires Trombone (1G Bell, TB47 Slide, Tru-bore valve), Bach 5GS Mouthpiece
    Besson Prestige 2052-8G, Alliance DC3 Mouthpiece
    Yamaha YCR2330 Cornet

  9. Quote Originally Posted by iMav View Post
    How does the Alliance E2 fit in with these?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Steven Mead mouthpiece development path
    Wick 3AL -> Wick SM3 -> Wick SM Classic Series -> Alliance 'Mead' Series -> Wick SM Ultra Series -> Wick SM Ultra X -> Wick SM Ultra XR

    The Alliance E2 fits into the Alliance 'Mead' Series - it's a 'clearer' version of the mouthpiece that is the next size up from your SM4U.
    (Alliance size 2 is the same as Bach/Wick size 3)

    The DC Series development path:
    Wick 4AL -> DC3 -> DC Series
    (Alliance size 3 is the same as Bach/Wick size 4)

    The DC3 is a tamed (refined) version of a 4AL. The sound on the DC3 is more focused, but the 4AL is much more relaxed to play.

    The problem with developing mouthpieces (and engineering in general), is that they rarely gain something without having to give something up.
    So it's more about what qualities matter to you, and finding the right mouthpiece that matches your preferences.

    If you are comfortable with Bach/Wick 3 rims (~26.4mm), but find the E2 too much work then the following mouthpieces might work for you:
    Alliance E2a
    SM3XR

    Both are large rims, with shallower cups which will help range and stamina. The SM3XR does not sound shallow, I haven't tried a E2a.

    Regards,
    ted
    Ted

    Besson Prestige BE2052-8G-0 Euphonium
    Besson Sovereign 956 Baritone

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by superted View Post
    <snip>
    Regards,
    ted
    Thanks for the info Ted! Very helpful.

    I have a few mouthpieces with a cup diameter larger than 26mm on order…once I find out how I like those, I think I’ll be well on my way to finding the features (and “compromises”) that suit me best.
    Groups
    Valley City Community Band
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    Larry Herzog Jr.

    All things EUPHONIUM! Guilded server

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