What brands / models to avoid for new purchase

[treyd]

Hello, I used to be a euph performance major under Sam Pilafian back in the late 90's. I haven't touched a horn since 2003. And I sold them all. Shame. So now my wife wants me to get a euph so we can play duets and join the local band and such. I see a lot of posts about what euphs people like so I thought I'd ask what euphs should I avoid (due to bad craftsmanship, not good bang-for-the-buck, bad sound, etc)? I know answers will be subjective. I'm intrigued by these 1500-5000 dollar chinese horns. I really can't afford to dump 10k on this. Since I used to practice 30 hrs a week, I know I'll never be as good as I was, but I also refuse to play on a non-compensating or otherwise crappy instrument. Please help me avoid a mistake. Thank you!

[MichaelSchott]

Touchy question. It might be easier to recommend horns than to disqualify others. It looks like Wessex is the top choice in Chinese made stencil horns. The Sinfonico looks to be a step up on the Dolce. Beyond that, used professional model horns are available for reasonable prices. A favorite seems to be round stamp Besson models.

[1Cor13:4]

Are you looking for a new horn, or are you open to a used horn? Are you looking for an instrument immediately, or can you wait?

I feel like for 5K you could find almost any horn you want used if you wait a bit and find a good deal.

[treyd]

I am ok with used horns for sure. Old Wilson and Besson models had intonation issues worse than my Old Yamaha Yep621, IMO, though. 5k is at the top of my range and I hesitate to pay that much. I have no idea how this is going to go once I get a horn.

[treyd]

Yeah, I didn't want to ask it the other way because I think there are a lot of threads on what euphs people like already and so many options now. But perhaps that was a mistake nonetheless. Wessex looks promising. The JP Sterling model (4-5 grand?) looks like a top choice for Chinese, also, but it's more expensive. *Shrugs*

[1Cor13:4]

Are you local to any shops that you can try instruments? I think there are some places open now. Dillon allows testing instruments for sure.

[John Morgan]

Very soon a few of us on the forum will be evaluating the Wessex Sinfonico, which sells for around $3K (during the next month or so). I personally own an Adams E3 as my main horn, but also own a Wessex Dolce (which sold for about $1,200 a few years ago, it is a little more now), and the Dolce is quite a good horn. The Sinfonico is/should be a step up from the Dolce, will know soon.

And, if you happen upon a nice used top end horn, that could work as well.

For new compensating and inexpensive, I would look at Wessex Dolce or Austin Custom Brass Doubler (both reviewed here on the forum, the Doubler recently by a group of folks here, the Wessex by many on the forum). They are both in the mid $1K's. The Sinfoncio at about $3K is a clear step up from the Dolce and Doubler.

If you really want a don't get horn list, I would advise against anything selling for $500 or less new, and anything made from plastic. There are a couple of countries I would probably not by a euphonium from, but am hesitant to mention them here. And those countries would be non-starters for me based on the quality of the instruments.

[cbz]

I am ok with used horns for sure. Old Wilson and Besson models had intonation issues worse than my Old Yamaha Yep621, IMO, though. 5k is at the top of my range and I hesitate to pay that much. I have no idea how this is going to go once I get a horn.

You could always search for another 621. They do come up for sale from time to time although they stopped selling them in the US after they introduced the 641 so I don't think there are a lot out there. It isn't a compensating horn but I think it's a great horn.

There seems to be a lot of used horns on the market now so if you're patient you're likely to get a good deal. I picked up a demo model Yamaha 642 Neo for just a little over $3K. It didn't have a scratch on it and looked like it had never really been played.

Arul

[treyd]

Mine was compensating, so maybe I have the model number wrong. It's been so long. Maybe the 641 is what I had? Anyway, thank you!

[1Cor13:4]

I'm not sure if you're interested, but joshealejo is selling this interesting instrument:

http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthr...m#.YKvmQI2Sm70

It's definitely unique...

[treyd]

Thanks. This one appears to have sold or been removed. I vaguely remember these Courtois instruments.

[DEF1]

The last euphonium I actually owned was a Courtois. It was nice in some areas and not so great in others. I’ve now had the Wessex Dolce for a week and it plays so much better than the Courtois did.

Treyd, I was in a similar position to you not wanting to overspend but wanting the best I could get for my money. I ultimately went for the Dolce over a 2nd hand pro Euph due to the fact I had never owned a new euphonium and the reviews on the Dolce. It plays superb and I’m sure you won’t be disappointed if you went this route.

[JakeGuilbo]

Most chinese euphs are clones of the Yamaha 641 and as such will play better for you: used to the Yamaha sound, intonation, response, ergonomics. Mack Brass and Wessex Dolce are typically cited as the best of this particular example. If you wait, you can find a used 641 or 642 for between $3k-$5k. You could also find a store demo 642 with tuning trigger for $4k-$6k. If any of these are in your budget, I would wait. If this is not in your budget, get either the Mack or Wessex. You'll enjoy it fine right now and can then decide later whether to upgrade. Choosing a DIFFERENT Chinese horn (JP, Wessex Sinfonico and others) will be way different for you - you will be fighting the poorer build quality of the horn along with the tendencies of whatever horn that horn is a copy of. You will set yourself up for success better by going with what you know now, imo.

[RickF]

Mine was compensating, so maybe I have the model number wrong. It's been so long. Maybe the 641 is what I had? Anyway, thank you!

Welcome to Dave Werden's forum!

It sounds to me like you had the 641 – which is very similar to the 621 but with compensating valves. My other horn (still in possession of my grandson) is a 641. A very good horn with an 11" one-piece bell giving it a very focused sound. The worst note on my 641 was the 6th partial concert 'E'. Must have been about 20 cents sharp. Using 4-2 fingering was better but the tone suffered. 4th valve worked great for the 6th partial 'F'.

My present horn is a Miraphone 5050 which I love! The tone is excellent with good intonation. Much easier to lip notes on the M5050. The 641 actually slotted TOO well which made it hard to lip the pitch. The M5050 is nearly $8K so sounds like it's out of the question.

[treyd]

Welcome to Dave Werden's forum!

It sounds to me like you had the 641 – which is very similar to the 621 but with compensating valves. My other horn (still in possession of my grandson) is a 641. A very good horn with an 11" one-piece bell giving it a very focused sound. The worst note on my 641 was the 6th partial concert 'E'. Must have been about 20 cents sharp. Using 4-2 fingering was better but the tone suffered. 4th valve worked great for the 6th partial 'F'.

My present horn is a Miraphone 5050 which I love! The tone is excellent with good intonation. Much easier to lip notes on the M5050. The 641 actually slotted TOO well which made it hard to lip the pitch. The M5050 is nearly $8K so sounds like it's out of the question.

Thanks. Yes, it was slottier and I remember that tendency too. I haven't owned it in 20 years! I don't think it was the best horn, even then, but it was the best I could afford at the time. I think I'll be going for the Wessex Sinfonico. I expect it to play differently than the Yamaha, based on JakeGuilbo's comment, but I'm basically starting over and the characteristics of this horn should be a good fit.