FS: Lovely Conn Double-Bell Euphonium - Restored - ACT FAST

[davewerden]

This 4-valve double-bell appears to be in outstanding condition because of a full restore (including the valves). It is satin silver with bright highlights and gold inside the small bell, made in about 1914 according to the listing (that looks about right). No hard case, but it has an Altieri gig bag. The BUY-IT-NOW price is $2,000. That seems like an unusual bargain for this horn!

ITEM SOLD FOR $2,000

https://www.ebay.com/itm/333976307820

[Shinn]

For those in the California part of the country, there is also a 1915 5-valve Conn double-bell euphonium with satin silver finish (smaller gold wash bell) advertised on Craigslist ($3,600);

https://santabarbara.craigslist.org/...293110161.html

[John Morgan]

I did a little research by contacting another seller who has a similar double-bell euphonium up for sale. I told him how to check to see if the horn was HP (high pitch) or LP (low pitch). He is a musician and gave it a go. He came back to me stating it appeared to be HP (high pitch). I looked at the main tuning slide in his picture of the instrument vs. the one Dave references above. They seem the same, so I don't think any slide modifications have been done. If the instrument is HP, highly likely (sorry for the pun), then it will not play within modern concert bands and wind ensembles, unless the HP makes the horn a full half step above normal tuning, at which point you can transpose everything down a half step (that would be interesting to say the least).

But, I almost jumped at this horn because it is in such superlative condition. I still may. I could simply play the horn by itself. I suppose I could look into modifying the slide, but not sure how successful I would be at that. Man, I am really tempted to snatch this horn up!!! Hey Linda.........

BTW - thanks to Dave for bringing up the HP/LP issue to me!!

[1Cor13:4]

It's a beautiful horn.

If you tried to lower the pitch by just modifying say the main tuning slide, I'd think you'd have issues trying to get the tuning right when the valves are pressed. Maybe 1st and 3rd valve would have enough tuning slide length to account for it, but the 2nd valve might be sharp still.

[John Morgan]

Hmmm, after further study and looking at some old Conn Instrument catalogues, I am not so sure this horn that Dave introduces at the top of this thread, is high pitch. Looking at the pictures of 4 and 5 valve double-bell models from that era, the main tuning slide (coming off the leadpipe) is much shorter in the pictures, leading me to believe that the longer main slide plumbing might lend one to believe it is low pitch. Conn advertised the horns of that era in both high and low pitch. So, anyone with some knowledge of this is highly encouraged to jump in and shed some light.

And, more importantly, the fellow who told me his horn (that looks like the one Dave posted) is high pitch, did NOT blow it to test it. He read something. And he showed me what it was he read. Verdict: I say that he doesn't know whatsoever if it is HP of LP.

[John Morgan]

Just received word from the seller that the double-bell euphonium is LOW PITCH!! So, that would allow this horn to play with modern day bands and wind ensembles and use regular euphonium music to play with piano accompaniment. The plot thickens... Linda, oh Linda, just one more time...........

[RickF]

John, you crack my up. I remember when I got my new M5050 it cost me extra as I needed to get my wife a new sewing machine. Happy wife = happy life.

[John Morgan]

John, you crack my up. I remember when I got my new M5050 it cost me extra as I needed to get my wife a new sewing machine. Happy wife = happy life.

Rick, I am absolutely hopeless when it comes to instruments. And I am convinced I married the most understanding and considerate wife in the world. There just is no one better when it comes to me getting horns or playing on mine at 11:30 at night, two hours after she has gone to bed.

I do try to do nice things for my wife, but she is so easily pleased (look who she married!) that it isn't hard to make her happy. A blissful life indeed.

[daruby]

Hmmm, after further study and looking at some old Conn Instrument catalogues, I am not so sure this horn that Dave introduces at the top of this thread, is high pitch.

My original assumption after looking at the pictures of the Conn DB referred to by Dave Werden above is that this is an HP horn converted to LP. The tuning slide in the leadpipe has the lengthened ferrules typical of a horn that is an HP convert.

Leadpipe tuning slides typically are much more sensitive than tuning slides after the valve section. An additional 1" of tubing near the leadpipe may have the same affect as 1.5" of tubing further on. In my experimentation with leadpipe length, I found a 1" extender at the receiver = 2x1" in ferrules at the tuning slide (i.e. 2" of tubing).

I would guess some judicious use of the 1-2-3 valve slides to get thyis horn to play in tune might be necessary, but it should be quite playable with the tuning slide it has.

Doug

[John Morgan]

My original assumption after looking at the pictures of the Conn DB referred to by Dave Werden above is that this is an HP horn converted to LP. The tuning slide in the leadpipe has the lengthened ferrules typical of a horn that is an HP convert.

Leadpipe tuning slides typically are much more sensitive than tuning slides after the valve section. An additional 1" of tubing near the leadpipe may have the same affect as 1.5" of tubing further on. In my experimentation with leadpipe length, I found a 1" extender at the receiver = 2x1" in ferrules at the tuning slide (i.e. 2" of tubing).

I would guess some judicious use of the 1-2-3 valve slides to get thyis horn to play in tune might be necessary, but it should be quite playable with the tuning slide it has.

Doug

Thanks for your eye on this Doug. I was hoping you would weigh in. It actually looks like a convert to me, too. I am calling the joint that did work on it tomorrow if the horn is still available. What looks strange is the brace on the tuning slide which would cause it to stop by contacting the brace. That seems odd, and gives credence to your thinking it was converted. The Conn catalogue from that era shows the double-bell being available in high and low pitch. But that slide sure does look suspect for being a conversion.

[John Morgan]

...Leadpipe tuning slides typically are much more sensitive than tuning slides after the valve section. An additional 1" of tubing near the leadpipe may have the same affect as 1.5" of tubing further on. In my experimentation with leadpipe length, I found a 1" extender at the receiver = 2x1" in ferrules at the tuning slide (i.e. 2" of tubing)...Doug

Okay, I guess I need a lesson here. If a euphonium is about 9 feet in length, then it would seem to me that an inch or two taken from or added to "anywhere" along the journey from mouthpiece receiver/leadpipe to the bell of the horn would have the same effect, no matter where this increase or decrease in length occurred. Please educate me.

[daruby]

Okay, I guess I need a lesson here. If a euphonium is about 9 feet in length, then it would seem to me that an inch or two taken from or added to "anywhere" along the journey from mouthpiece receiver/leadpipe to the bell of the horn would have the same effect, no matter where this increase or decrease in length occurred. Please educate me.

I am not sure of the exact physics of this, but in a conical instrument, as the bore grows larger, the effect on pitch of additional tubing changes. I can report my experience that 1" at the leadpipe equals 2" at the tuning slide based on experimentation when I put a new leadpipe on a Sovereign 967 and was messing with pitch.

Doug

[Sara Hood]

John, you crack my up. I remember when I got my new M5050 it cost me extra as I needed to get my wife a new sewing machine. Happy wife = happy life.

Maybe a trifle off topic here, but.... Come on you guys (tease).... As someone who happens to resemble this remark (a wife and a horn player), I would like to say that I do not like to win my battles that way. I should not get my way simply because someone is trying to keep me happy, because they are trying to keep the peace ("Happy wife = happy life.).

- Sara

[RickF]

I was teasing too Sara. My wife that I've been married to now for 50 years is very understanding. The 'happy wife' remark was tongue in cheek - that's why I used a smiley face.

[John Morgan]

I have found another Conn double bell front action 4 valve for sale that is from the early 1910's. The tuning slide on this one looks like a for real low pitch instrument. I agree with Doug that the one at the top of this post is indeed, probably a high pitch version that has had a different main tuning slide added to lower the pitch. Not sure if anything was done with the individual valve slides.

I think I would really need to play this horn to check it out totally before spending any hard earned retirement funds. It is still there, so it has unbecome a "hot item" in my opinion. If someone wanted to actually buy this horn for their everyday playing in a band, then I do think it would be wise to check it out first. I have asked the seller if they would let me check it out in person, if I am not satisfied, I would pay shipping both ways. I will see what they say, I doubt they will do it, though.