Besson Prestige (Gold Lacquer) review/experience

[highpitch]

Oberloh fabbed a floating leadpipe on my NS. Made a noticeable sonic difference.

DG

[miketeachesclass]

Hi Micah,

I'm still playing the horn. I had a trusted friend do a blind test listening to me playing, and he had the following preferences:

1) Gold Lacquer Prestige
2) Adams E3
3) Geneva Cardinal
4) Willson 2960

This was in my living room, but I've got 14' vaulted ceilings, so it's a large enough room to not sound "small".

One additional thing he noticed when we were looking at his 2052 vs this one was the 3rd valve tubing is attached to the main bow closer than on the 2052; this makes for an easier 4th valve reach, which is very nice.

I'm still breaking the valves in, so they're not quite as fast as his 2052 that's about a decade old.

This horn really does sound great. We noticed that in comparison with his 2052, the gold lacquer horn feels more resonant, and free blowing. The sound is more "complex" to my ear, probably having to do with upper harmonic content. Subjectively, you might say it's got more "bloom" than the standard 2052.

It's absolutely the finest example of a prestige I've played.

Hello Mike,

I was wondering if you had any update for us on the new Gold Lacquer Besson Prestige 2052-2 Euphonium?

Best Wishes,

Micah Dominic Parsons

[daruby]

One additional thing he noticed when we were looking at his 2052 vs this one was the 3rd valve tubing is attached to the main bow closer than on the 2052; this makes for an easier 4th valve reach, which is very nice.

Mike,

The change to the 3rd valve wrap to move it closer to the outer bow is not unique to the new Gold Lacquer horn, but was made sometime around 2012 to all Sovereign/Prestige models. What I had heard was that this was done for the Asian marketplace where average hand size is smaller. This makes that left hand grip on new Besson's similar to that on the Yamaha 642/842 horns.

Doug

[franz]

I ask a stupid question: what would happen if I eliminated the jumper that connects the leadpipe to the bell of my 2052? would I get an improvement in resonance like in the gold lacquered model or would I do some damage?

[daruby]

I ask a stupid question: what would happen if I eliminated the jumper that connects the leadpipe to the bell of my 2052? would I get an improvement in resonance like in the gold lacquered model or would I do some damage?

Franz,

I am not totally sure it is as simple as that. I did the reverse on a 2001 Sovereign (which has a full floating leadpipe). I didn't like the wrap of the Soverreign leadpipe (late British model) and the horn's response was not even throughout the range. It was very easy to overblow the 1st partial. I transplanted a York Eminence leadpipe and receiver (similar to Prestige) and added a mid-brace, thus making the horn essentially similar to a Prestige. The response evened out and I liked the way the horn played much better than with the original leadpipe. The issue is I am not sure how much of the effect was due to the leadpipe and how much was due to the mid-brace. On the new Gold Lacquer horns, while the mid-brace is removed, I am not totally clear on whether the leadpipe of the horn is the same as a regular Prestige. If it is also changed, then merely removing the mid-brace may not be the solution.

Doug

[miketeachesclass]

Thanks for the correction, Doug!

Mike,

The change to the 3rd valve wrap to move it closer to the outer bow is not unique to the new Gold Lacquer horn, but was made sometime around 2012 to all Sovereign/Prestige models. What I had heard was that this was done for the Asian marketplace where average hand size is smaller. This makes that left hand grip on new Besson's similar to that on the Yamaha 642/842 horns.

Doug

[miketeachesclass]

I wouldn’t do something like that. Like Doug said, you never know what other design considerations there were in changing the lead pipe.

Also, it’s just one man’s opinion. You may disagree with my playing assessment!

Mike

I ask a stupid question: what would happen if I eliminated the jumper that connects the leadpipe to the bell of my 2052? would I get an improvement in resonance like in the gold lacquered model or would I do some damage?

[Micah.Dominic.Parsons-OFFLINE]

Hello Mike,

It is really good to hear about your new Gold Lacquered Besson Prestige 2052-2 Euphonium. I was wondering if you had recorded a video of you playing it yet? I am eager to hear you playing your new instrument!

Best Wishes,

Micah Dominic Parsons

[miketeachesclass]

I haven’t, but I’ll try to get to that maybe over the weekend.

Hello Mike,

It is really good to hear about your new Gold Lacquered Besson Prestige 2052-2 Euphonium. I was wondering if you had recorded a video of you playing it yet? I am eager to hear you playing your new instrument!

Best Wishes,

Micah Dominic Parsons

[Micah.Dominic.Parsons-OFFLINE]

Hello Mike,

I cannot wait to hear you playing your new Gold Lacquered Besson Prestige 2052-2 Euphonium.

Best Wishes,

Micah Dominic Parsons

[rgorscak]

i have been in and out this forum with the same basic problem. I have a Besson Prestige 2052 silver horn maybe about 4 years old (bought it new a little over 2 years ago). as i have said, the last time i had played a horn was back in the early 1970s, the last time with a band in 1969. I started again a little over 2 years ago on this horn. After 2 years, i still am extremely sharp on high notes, so sharp that even using the trigger to extend the slide, i am not getting in tune. I had thought that continue to practice would help. Last night i played with a band for the first time since 1969 and it was a disaster in that i could tell i was still extremely sharp compare to the other Euphonium. I do not know if it is the horn, the mouthpiece, or more likely just me. I have not figured out how to solve this problem. Not having someone local i can talk to about this and they observe my embouchure, i am at a loss of how to solve this. I tried playing a Bach Trumpet i have with a tuner and i am much closer to being in tune and i think i am much closer with the Conn Constellation Euphonium i have, although i am not sure because i sent it out to have some work done on it.

Has anyone any suggestions?

I know i am going to try some other brands of horns to see how they and i get along.

[rgorscak]

i should have said i tried a Bach Bass Trumpet and i was pretty much in tune. left out a word

[davewerden]

After 2 years, i still am extremely sharp on high notes, so sharp that even using the trigger to extend the slide, i am not getting in tune.

Well, there is no doubt that many people play the Prestige with great success, but there is some sharpness. Here is my graph for the 2051:



Does that line up with your experience?

Tuning a horn is a combination of learning its tendencies and how best to work with them. The trigger is a tool for sure, but sometimes we need to learn how to blow so that we are cooperating with the horn. I find that I can easily make my own horn flat or sharp on notes that are neither! In the new recording I did of Czardas, the upper F concert in the slow section turned out to be a problem for ME. Something about that phrase made me want to hear it higher, I guess. But regardless of why, my chops pushed a note that is well in tune and made it around 20 cents sharp. Worse, I could not detect what my chops were doing exactly. Obviously it was no particular effort for them! Yet, I'm also able to play the note flat in some contexts (again, without meaning to).

In MY case, I believe this is due to way too much basement time (especially lately) and not enough ensemble time. I'm trying to get my chops back in the habit of playing what my ear/brain says the note should sound like, and that works pretty well. But in MY case I'm undoing a long period of slipping habits.

None of this may apply to you, but I'm throwing it out as food for thought.

My best guess is that you would be better in tune on the Conn because of its smaller bore. A larger bore makes it easier to lose the center.

[rgorscak]

Thank you for your response Dave; I am working on it

[miketeachesclass]

Sadly, this horn is going back to Thomann. The issue with the 1st valve casing seems to be creating drag on the valve, and I’m told it would basically require a new casing to fix it.

Pretty shocking that Besson’s QC would have let it through, as you can see in the posted photo it’s very obvious.

So, I’m on the lookout for another, though they are hard to find currently.