LOCKED NOW, SEE NEW THREAD: Will I Finally Replace My Wick 4AL with a _____?

[davewerden]

BTW, are you single or double tonging Czardas? I play that piece a bit faster and absolutely have to double tongue. If you were double tonging, that was extremely clean tonguing for double tonguing at that speed.

It was double. I'm working every day to speed up my single tongue, but that is a very slow process. There is no way I could single tongue even at this speed, especially on the 6-note series!

[John Morgan]

It was double. I'm working every day to speed up my single tongue, but that is a very slow process. There is no way I could single tongue even at this speed, especially on the 6-note series!

Not trying to derail this post, as I am very curious to find out which mouthpieces you were playing, but did you know that the late Fred Dart (formerly of the U.S. Air Force Band) could not double or triple tongue? I learned that while attending the University of New Mexico (Albuquerque) in 1970-71, right before going into the U.S. Army Band. I did some playing with Fred and he filled me in on a lot of stuff concerning auditions for the premier service bands. He mentored me for almost a semester and basically just took the time to play with me, even though I was not a music major, I just played in the band. It was during those sessions that he told me he didn't double or triple tongue. I was sort of amazed as he could go really, really fast tonguing some of the things he played for me. He had undoubtedly the fastest single tongue I have heard.

Okay, now back on topic. WHICH MOUTHPIECES DID YOU USE, DAVE????

[davewerden]

Okay, now back on topic. WHICH MOUTHPIECES DID YOU USE, DAVE????

Once I've given people a fair chance to chime in, I'll spill the beans! I will also listen again to my own Red/Blue recording with some of this feedback in mind.

BTW, this recording was made at the end of a rehearsal where we worked on the Arpeggione and Czardas. Then we learned the piano tuner was waiting in the hall outside the sanctuary to get in for the piano (in case you didn't notice from the recording, the piano is IN NEED). So it was a rush job and I was a bit tired. As such, I know I was not playing as consistently as I wanted. When I re-listen I'll combine my memory of that with the comments and see if there is some alignment.

[adrian_quince]

After a couple of listens, it's definitely blue for me. There's more energy and sizzle in the sound. While red might be smoother, blue is more exciting and engaging to my ear.

[euphisto]

I also vote for the blue mouthpiece. I think I know which mouthpieces you're testing but I'll wait for the big reveal.

Robert Pendergast, DM

[carbogast]

Red: Warmer and somewhat veiled, Blue: Cooler with more presence and brilliance in the attack.

I thought blue served Czardas well, while the warmth of red was just right for the Holst.

[JakeGuilbo]

Blue all the way. You are so much more dynamic, more musical. You color the tone more with blue than red as needed and it seems more open and vibrant. It suggests a familiarity with blue that isn't there with red, but the lower notes seem to speak better on blue also. I noticed one or two intonation things on blue that weren't there on red but it was minor and the expressiveness shown with blue is way worth whatever minor intonation tradeoff.

[longhornpatino]

Blue

[davewerden]

Blue all the way. You are so much more dynamic, more musical. You color the tone more with blue than red as needed and it seems more open and vibrant. It suggests a familiarity with blue that isn't there with red, but the lower notes seem to speak better on blue also. I noticed one or two intonation things on blue that weren't there on red but it was minor and the expressiveness shown with blue is way worth whatever minor intonation tradeoff.

I'm going to wait another day or so to reveal the identities of the mouthpieces, but I can say this for some added perspective. I had planned on staying late after a rehearsal with Sara to do some mouthpiece tests. But when I got there I learned that the piano tuner was coming when we were scheduled to be done. Some juggling was needed. The 2 piano pieces you heard are each at the 70% level of readiness for me - I'm still working on my chops in general and the specific techniques and expression for each piece. But I decided to use them as part of the demo anyway.

Sooooo, that brought about 2 compromises to my normal testing process. First, I'm using music I can't be sure to play consistently from one take to the next. And second, it necessitated repeatedly going back & forth between the two mouthpiece, which I don't like to do. My normal process is to warm up on one, play all the excerpts, then warm up on the other and play all the excerpts. In that case, I have a lot of rearranging to do on the recording so each excerpt is presented as A/B. That process helps me stay "in the groove" with a mouthpiece. Constant swapping means you are a bit off balance at all times.

My goal at some point is to take all this input and listen to the recordings myself once more. I can make allowances for my own unevenness, for example, and I will probably do a few intonation check to see if the mouthpieces contributed to any pitch differences.

[aroberts781]

I was feeling a bit in the minority opinion with red so I went back to listen with some better headphones. For full disclosure my first listen was just on my phone speakers. People have made some good points about blue, and I did agree that what I initially heard as edge is better described as lively.

It is close for me but I still think overall I prefer red, even though they both have their shining moments. For me it comes down to red sounding a bit more pure to my ear and more at ease in a way that I enjoy.

I could see times where getting a little bit more sparkle/zing out of red would have been nice. There were moments where the liveliness of blue was great, so keep them both!

[miketeachesclass]

I'm with Jake.

I prefer Blue in nearly all aspects; you sound more present, articulations are clearer, and your accuracy seems better. Maybe that's a product of familiarity, but you'll have to be the judge of that!

Blue all the way. You are so much more dynamic, more musical. You color the tone more with blue than red as needed and it seems more open and vibrant. It suggests a familiarity with blue that isn't there with red, but the lower notes seem to speak better on blue also. I noticed one or two intonation things on blue that weren't there on red but it was minor and the expressiveness shown with blue is way worth whatever minor intonation tradeoff.

[Magikarp]

I'm seriously testing a new mouthpiece and I'd like some opinions if you have a spare 3 minutes and 44 seconds. I only identify them with RED and BLUE. Opinions are welcome!

https://youtu.be/OAhyWsIw0EQ

I prefer the red sound, and the intonation seems more predictable. The blue projects a little better I think, but is brighter sound, which to my brass band ears is not as desirable as breadth of sound.

[DutchEupho]

I prefer the "RED" mouthpiece. It sounds warmer and has a more classic euphonium sound. (I suspect this to be the 4AL). The Blue one sounds brighter to my ears but with clearer articulation but is has the same basic sound concept as the RED.

If I would need to guess then the BLUE mouthpiece could be an Alliance David Childs mouthpiece or some SS mouthpiece If I listen to David Childs playing older recordings (on a 4AL) or newer on the DC3 I hear similar differences as in this comparison.