Contrasting Shires Q40 vs Q41

[guidocorona]

A number of recorded examples of the Shires Q41 euphonium exist on youtube, including the excellent performance by Bente Illevold of Tchaikovsky's Variations On A Rococo' Theme at

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLBy0KNIcvU

Conversely, I had discovered no examples of its Q40 sibling. Hence, I have been wondering how the two might differ in tone and performance characteristics.

Until, very recently, I found a well-recorded youtube where Alexis at Shires compares and contrasts the two horns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeF9rKf8sIk

Listening through the speakers of my laptop computer differences between Q40 and Q41 seem quite subtle. Yet, the personalities unique to each of the two emerge clearly when I switched to my good Plantronic USB headset.

Thus my questions to this community, whether or not you own either of them, or play tested them, or have only listened to Q40 and Q41 through the clip above...

* What tonal and performance difference do you perceive?
* Which horn might you prefer and why?
* If you have adopted one of them, which one and why?
* Which eupho brand/model has your Q euphonium replaced, and why?

BTW, if you know of any further recorded clips of Q40, please do poste them here.

Best regards, Guido

[guidocorona]

Sorry... Duplicate deleted.

[Fujiifilm]

Steve Vaughn, who I believe posts here every so often, recently switched from a Besson Prestige to the Q40 (He's listed on the Shires Euph artist page). Here's a short clip on Facebook of him playing an excerpt from "Blind Spot":

I'm sure he'd be happy to answer any questions you may have about the instrument!

He'll also be performing at VTEC (ITEA's virtual Tuba-Euph Conference) in a few months, so you'll be able to hear the Q40 there as well!

[Fujiifilm]

For the Q41, there are a number of fantastic recordings Hiram Diaz (The President's Own US Marine Band) has made with the instrument. Should be noted that he uses the medium/euro shank version of the Q41.

Here are a few recordings so you can hear the horn in a variety of settings:

Kevin Day's Euphonium Concerto, accompanied by Pershing's Own US Army Band:

Solo recital with piano accompaniment from Nov. 2020:

US Marine Brass Sextet and Brass Ensemble concerts:

[guidocorona]

Thank you so much Fujiifilm for all the links.... Hiram Diaz is wonderful on his own Q41, and particularly impressive/intense performing the Vladimir Cosma concerto...

This begs the question... Does a recording of the Cosma concerto performed on a Q40 exist somewhere?

Regards, Guido

[AwesomeDad]

Rather than start a new thread, Steve Vaughn’s video list the Q41 in the description which may be in error as shires lists him as an artist playing the Q40. As for Alexis video it seems to me the Q41 seems more focused and lyrical where the Q40 seems almost muted in comparison. Now the bell size may account for this but has me leaning towards the Q41….

JJ

[guidocorona]

After AwesomeDad posted the above, he received a message from Steven Vaughn confirming that in the video Mr. Vaughn was playing a Q41,, and that his mouthpiece is a K&J3.5D.

So, perhaps the Shires Euphonium artists page is incorrect or obsolete, as it lists Steve as playing on a Q40. See:

https://www.seshires.com/euphoniumartists

Regards, Guido

[Ajeasley]

I play and own a medium shank Q41, though I've never laid hands on a Q40. I've had it since November 2020.

For me the horn sounds great, blows easily, and the intonation is good enough that I don't find myself wanting for a trigger or another horn. I don't know if medium shank really makes a difference or not compared to the same horn in large shank, but other than the inconvenience of buying a new mouthpiece it plays with a nice focused sound.

As far as replaced horns, I've owned or borrowed every Yamaha distributed to the United States over the last 15 years (321, 641, original 642, Neo, 842) with the most recent and significant time spent with the 641 and the Neo. The 641 is mine and I love that horn, but the intonation is not at all flexible - it's incredibly difficult to lip notes in tune. One could also that the great focused tone it produces borders on stuffy. The Neo compares favorably with the Q41 in my opinion. I think it would come down to sound preference - I like the Shires a little better, but I could live happily with a Neo.

I also spent a good bit of time with an army-issued Willson 2950 a few years back. The fit and finish on the Willson were superior, but the musical qualities on the Q41 are better for me.

One thing on the Q41 that I don't care for is the valve block. The valves are perfectly fine, but the threading on the valve caps is super thin and feels very cheap. I get paranoid putting it back in the horn that I'm going to have it off center and strip the threading. Hopefully Shires will step up the build quality here if/when they introduce the custom line made entirely in Massachusetts.

Overall though, it's a good horn and no regrets buying one.

[guidocorona]

Thank you so much Andrew for posting all this excellent information!

Sadly, Flimsy threading seems to be systemic on euphoniums from Mainland China, or euphos featuring valve blocks from the People's Republic.... My quasi-entry-level priced priced Wessex Festivo is a case in point.

But Q41 is a professional horn -- hardly entry-level. I am befuddled that Shires -- with its stellar reputation -- let such glaring flaw pass their Q.A. process. Have you tried to contact Alexis Smith at Shires about it? They might be able to address it.

Concerning medium vs large receiver, when I chatted with Alexis a couple years ago, she seemed to have experienced little difference between the two receivers on Q euphoniums.

BTW, have you heard any scuttlebutt about timeline/features of the future Shires custom euphonium series?

Lastly, which mouthpiece are you using on Q41?

Regards, Guido

[Fujiifilm]

Regarding the custom series, there was a livestream through the S.E. Shires Facebook page with Hiram Diaz and Brandon Jones when they were up at the factory doing some development work with Shires. They play a rochut duet on the Q series, then answer Q&A that they received through Facebook about various topics, including some testing work on the custom series.

About 46 minutes in, they shift to James Monaghan (Shires General Manager) who discusses the development, manufacturing approaches and design concepts that they're planning for the custom euphs, including different weight/material of valve caps, and a modular mouthpiece receiver for not only accepting different sized shanks, but also options for recievers that cater to different tapers and insertion depths of various mouthpiece manufacturers.

At the end they play another rochut duet, this time on what I believe are prototype custom series euphs.

Here is a link to the video: https://fb.watch/63wWo8gha3/

[guidocorona]

Thank you Fuji, that was a really fascinating video... Amongst all other things, it looks like the Shires custom euphonium series might be based on Q41 rather than on Q40.

Really lov the tone and nimbleness of those prototypes.

Regards, Guido

[Euphdude967]

I got to spend some time with both the q41 and q40 at my state MEA conference in February 2020.

The Q41 has many of the qualities of a good Willson 2900. It’s focused and direct but with a more flexible sound than the 2900. Intonation was solid and very workable. The Q41 would be a great choice for wind band playing.

The Q40 has many of the qualities of the 41 but with a wider sound. The Q40 leans more towards the large bell Besson Sovereign. This horn would work in wind band but it seems more suited for a brass band.

I did not take the horns apart to check QC and build quality but on the outside fit and finish seemed fine.


Both horns I tested were large shank.

[guidocorona]

Thank you so much EuphDude for sharing your comparative experience.... You confirm my impression from the demo by Shires's own Alexis Smith that Q40 features a broader and perhaps more Bessonian tone than Q41.

Now listening to Brandon Jones and Hiram Diaz playing the Schostakovich prelude on the prototypes of the upcoming Custom Series euphoniums performed during the Q&A linked a couple posts above, I am having the impression that the Custom Series may be heading further along the Q41 soloist focused tone, or perhaps symphonic route.

Truly fascinating.... Looking forward to learning more about them!

Regards, Guido

[Ajeasley]

Thank you so much Andrew for posting all this excellent information!

Sadly, Flimsy threading seems to be systemic on euphoniums from Mainland China, or euphos featuring valve blocks from the People's Republic.... My quasi-entry-level priced priced Wessex Festivo is a case in point.

But Q41 is a professional horn -- hardly entry-level. I am befuddled that Shires -- with its stellar reputation -- let such glaring flaw pass their Q.A. process. Have you tried to contact Alexis Smith at Shires about it? They might be able to address it.

Concerning medium vs large receiver, when I chatted with Alexis a couple years ago, she seemed to have experienced little difference between the two receivers on Q euphoniums.

BTW, have you heard any scuttlebutt about timeline/features of the future Shires custom euphonium series?

Lastly, which mouthpiece are you using on Q41?

Regards, Guido

The valves certainly aren't a deal breaker for me - just something to be careful about. I've been spoiled by multiple Yamahas and a Willson over the years that were very well built. The other elements of in a fit and finish sense are head and shoulders above other entry level compensators I've seen over the years and are more in line with the other pro offerings.

I don't know a thing about when a custom series horn might be coming, other than it will be exciting to see. I'm going to be buying new horns for my army unit sometime over the next few years and they will get consideration based on my Q41.

I'm using a BB1 with the Q41. That piece isn't for everyone (there are aspects of it that I really don't care for myself) but it works so well in a wind band setting doing what I need a euphonium to do in terms of blending. I recently bought a Giddings Kadja to see how that might work. That piece really made my old Yamaha 641 come to life, though it wasn't a stellar pairing with the Yamaha Neo I was issued for awhile. I've tried not to fiddle too much with mouthpieces as that's an expensive venture when you've never had a euro shank horn before, but my impression would be that it's pretty mouthpiece friendly.

[spkissane]

BTW, have you heard any scuttlebutt about timeline/features of the future Shires custom euphonium series?

I recently had a meeting with some reps from Eastman to plan a tuba/euph day at my shop in Jan/Feb of 2022 and was told that the custom series would likely be ready by then.