Results 1 to 5 of 5

Thread: ACB Doubler - Series 4, Episode 1 - clean and re-assemble

  1. ACB Doubler - Series 4, Episode 1 - clean and re-assemble

    Hi all,

    I am the current possessor of the Austin Custom Brass Doubler Euphonium that John Morgan, Dave Werden, and Jim Williams have already evaluated. John, Dave, and Jim have already done a great job of giving us all an idea of how the Doubler plays and what it is like. I am focusing on adding to the body of knowledge in the areas of maintainability (by an end user), ergonomics, tuning, and comparison with my Sterling Virtuoso. I will not focus on comparisons with my Adams E3 since the Doubler has been compared with two Adams E3's, a Yamaha Neo, a Yamaha 321, and to a limited extent a Wessex Dolce already.

    • Step 1. Run about 10 alcohol soaked Herco Spitballs through the horn for disinfecting purposes. Just a bit of black debris (polishing compound from mfg?) came out.
    • Step 2. After the Spitballs, the horn was washed out using my QHR in the bathtub.
    • Step 3. All the slides were pulled and soaked in warm soapy water (yes I got the 1st valve compensating slide out). All slides were swabbed using a Horn Saver snake.
    • Step 4. All the valves were pulled, disassembled and soaked in warm soapy water. The valves, valve caps, and finger buttons all cleaned.
    • Step 5. The outside of the horn was cleaned using Windex and a soft clean towel. The lead pipe was swabbed using the Horn Saver snake. All of the tubing and valve casings were swabbed.

    After cleaning we start reassembly and this is where things get interesting.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ACB1.jpg 
Views:	17 
Size:	138.0 KB 
ID:	8085

    First of all, note that the 4th valve (on the right) is a larger diameter than the 1-2-3 valves. This means the top and bottom valve caps and valve guides are not interchangeable between the 1-2-3 and 4th valves.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ACB2.jpg 
Views:	20 
Size:	78.2 KB 
ID:	8086
    I also checked the thread and diameter of the valve casings. The 1-2-3 valves are slightly smaller diameter than the Bauerfeind standard used by Willson, some Sterling, and Adams. The 4th valve casing is a bit larger, so the Doubler will not use the same heavy bottom cap (HBC) as the Adams, Sterling, Willson, et. al.

    Now look at the valve guides, the 4th valve guide is on the right. These look a bit like Besson guides, except they are held in place by washers and the screw-in stem. I have a great deal of experience with these guides on my Sterling baritone. While the method of installation is generally secure, one must be careful to insure the washer is properly seated on the stem. The bigger issue is that the plastic these are made out of is brittle, chips very easily, and wears down fairly quickly. I am on my 3rd or 4th set of guides on my Sterling baritone. I STRONGLY urge Austin Custom Brass to ship at least one set of spare guides with each horn. Also keep in mind they must be marked as 1-2-3 vs. 4.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ACB3.jpg 
Views:	18 
Size:	129.1 KB 
ID:	8087

    Finally, the valve stems. Here is a comparison of the 1-2-3 vs 4th valve stems. The 4th valve stem is longer to support a longer stroke. In addition, it uses just one retaining washer on the guide vs. two washers on the 1-2-3 valves. The 4th valve stem has no markings on it whereas the 1-2-3 stems are each marked with their valve number. I must add, that I did not see any markings on the top of the actual valves, so one must be careful to keep the stem and valve together when doing disassembly. I strongly recommend disassembling one valve at a time when one is doing a thorough clean/service on this horn.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ACB4.jpg 
Views:	15 
Size:	128.7 KB 
ID:	8088

    All in all, the engineering of the valve system is serviceable, but the owner of this instrument should make sure to have a spare set of valve guides on hand at all times. Also, care must be taken when doing disassembly to insure that stems, guides and caps stay with the valve they came out of.

    I did check the downstroke on the 1st valve after I installed it back in the horn. It seems to align perfectly with the 1st valve compensating loop. I cannot check upstroke to see if any misalignment is introduced by the felts on top of the pistons. I will say that they seem pretty thin (more so than the synthetic washers used on modern Besson/Sterling/Adams).

    Finally, I finished re-assembling the horn using Blue Juice valve oil and Hetman #7 slide grease. There are a few minor issues that I would ask be resolved by ACB before this horn goes out again. There is a 4th valve knock on the downstroke, the fit of the 1st valve compensating loop and 2nd valve slides need work, and the lyre box is misthreaded. These are all minor things that keep the horn from being functionally perfect.

    • I can get the 4th valve button to bottom on the cap and produce a bit of a "knock". I have some top cap ring felts that I will use to see if I can rectify this. UPDATE: This was because of extra compression of the "ring felt" in the top cap due to the pressure of the 4th valve retainer. I replaced the existing felt with two thinner ones from my spares. I will send the original back with the horn. I also added an 2nd o-ring snubber to the screw that holds the 4th valve retainer to space the retainer plate up a bit.
    • The 2nd valve slide is a bit loose, even using Hetman #7. This is an easy fix at the shop.
    • The 1st valve compensating slide is another matter. I used a shoelace to help pull this slide. I thoroughly cleaned the slide (inside and outside) and the slide ferrule. When I re-installed it, I greased one leg at a time and rotated both legs in their respective ferrules to insure thorough lubrication. Both legs were somewhat tight. I then installed the slide and found that it took a fair amount of force to push it in. It will likely require an assisted method of removal again next time. I think there is definitely an alignment problem with this slide.
    • UPDATE: The screw in the lyre box sticks up too high. when I checked in the box, I saw that the screw did not thread down into the box itself, but stops before it would engage a lyre. The hole the screw threads into is not centered either. This needs to be repaired. Will require a re-threading, at minimum. It may also be misaligned enough to keep the screw from hitting the hole in the box.

    So now the ACB Doubler is thoroughly cleaned, disinfected, and ready to play. I have blown a few notes and can verify that it is back together properly.

    A couple of more general comments. The Doubler is a hefty horn. The valve caps (bottom and top) seem to be similar to the heavier of the two sets of caps that come on a Besson Prestige. Definitely more substantial than the unweighted caps on my Sterling. When I pick up the Doubler and pick up my Sterling, they feel similar. Also, the bell size is 300mm which is identical to that of my Sterling. The valve action (save the 4th valve issue) feels good though the springs are a bit stiffer than I prefer.

    I will provide more updates later.
    Last edited by daruby; 12-19-2020 at 04:22 PM.
    Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
    Concord Band
    Winchendon Winds
    Townsend Military Band

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Summerfield, Florida Sturgis, SD (summers)
    Posts
    1,867
    Well done, Doug. Looking forward to more...
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium,
    1973 F. E. Olds & Son Studio Model T-31 Baritone
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Year Round Except Summer:
    Kingdom of the Sun (KOS) Concert Band, Ocala, FL (Euphonium)
    KOS Brass Quintet (Trombone, Euphonium)
    Summer Only:
    Rapid City Municipal Band, Rapid City, SD (Euphonium)
    Rapid City New Horizons Band (Euphonium)

  3. ACB Doubler - Weight

    Quick update:

    The ACB Doubler weighs about 10 lbs even according to my postal scale. By comparison, my Adams E3 weighs 9lbs 5 oz and the Sterling weighs 10 lbs 8 oz. both w/o heavy 4th valve bottom caps. So the ACB is 11 oz heavier than the Adams E3 and 8 oz. lighter than my Sterling (which has a trigger as well as a heavy gold brass bell).

    Doug
    Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
    Concord Band
    Winchendon Winds
    Townsend Military Band

  4. Great suggestion about the guides so we just ordered a bunch from the factory! We aligned the valves before shipping so perhaps the thinness of the pads is because of the materials we are using. The 2nd slide was tight when we shipped so perhaps all the shipping of this horn has knocked a few things out of alignment. That is a super easy fix and the others we do have here all are tight. Perhaps that also has affected the other slide that is tight. You're the last tester on the trip so once the horn comes back to ACB we'll definitely check out these alignment issues. Tis the season for shipping companies to beat up boxes!


    A gentle reminder that this horn was never intended to be in the league with the premium brands out there but to serve a different purpose entirely.

    Best,
    T
    Trent Austin
    Owner
    Austin Custom Brass
    www.austincustombrass.biz
    I started on Baritone BTW in 3rd grade band

  5. Quote Originally Posted by AustinCustomBrass View Post
    A gentle reminder that this horn was never intended to be in the league with the premium brands out there but to serve a different purpose entirely. T
    Hey Trent,

    No reminder necessary. These are just minor mechanical issues. I have started my playing evaluation and have a few hours of face time. I am impressed that this is a VERY solid horn and overall very well put together. I plan to ship it back to you right after Christmas (say 12/28 or 12/29). I will be in touch for shipping information and packing slip.

    Doug
    Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
    Concord Band
    Winchendon Winds
    Townsend Military Band

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •