Besson 956 4v Baritone v’s Wessex BR144 4v

[bbocaner]

Thanks Doug and Barry for your thoughts and comments - all very much appreciated.
I think my next plan must be to have a play on a BR144 and I guess a 2056; both back to back with 956.
One further question - speaking Treble clef and an ‘A’ one line above the top line. Absolute sod to hit nicely. With my preferred mouthpiece - this needs to be played on valve 3, as it either splits or seems to require exceptional control when using 1 and 2.
Same applies with the ‘B’ above it.
Is this a 956-ism or a player-ism?
What do you think?

I bought the very first 2056 sold in the US in 2008 and played that until I sold it to get my Neo in 2016. Prior to that I used a borrowed York 3056 (made using 956 tooling) for about a year, and the first player in the band I played with for over 10 years used a 956 which I tried on many occasions. I honestly don't remember exactly what specifically my intonation challenges were with the 3056/956 other than the fact that anything in the cis-pedal register with 4th valve plus any other valve is not easily useable.

On the 2056, the main alternate fingerings I used were (Bb treble clef terms):

fourth-line D - 1 + 3
B above the staff - 1 + 2 (the traditional 2nd valve fingering here was VERY flat)

I don't recall having to use more than a tiny bit of lipping for A on the first ledger line above the staff. Keep in mind that not every example of these instruments has exactly the same tendencies, and mouthpiece choice tends to complicate things, too.

[bbocaner]

By the way, the dislike of the 956 isn't completely universal. Helen Harrelson I know plays a 956 even though Besson gave her a 2056 to use as well, and she's an amazing player.

The Neo is where it's at!!

[Howellsimon]

Thanks to everyone for thoughts, comments and suggestions. Lots and lots for me to think about.
I like the 4v set up for ease of playing. I don’t use the 4v low range - as the 1st bari line is typically quite high, isn’t it?
So the 4th valve is only useful because my fingers from 1-3 to 2 and back (for instance in basin st blues) is tricky for my fat, old fingers...
So...... I really don’t know where I’m at now.
I fully understand that everyone is pretty much agreed that the 3v is better in both play and intonation.
So from what you have all said, a three valve shoot out would appear to give top three (not in order necessarily) as Yamaha neo, besson 955 or 1050 Sterling.
So..... 4v for the times when 4th valve helps finger a tricky passage or the easier play and tuning of a 3v??????!

[bbocaner]

Yeah, there isn't much call in a brass band for the extended range. I know that The Devil in the Deep Blue Sea has some low Fs but you could easily just fake it and nobody would notice. Ellerby Baritone Concerto has some extended range in it, too. But where I think it comes in handy is solo literature. There just isn't too much written for solo baritone literature, although the situation is getting better rapidly. But having 4 valves helps you borrow euphonium, bassoon, cello literature.

With regards to technique, I really like having 4 valves, too. I made the point to Katrina Marzella Wheeler that I thought it was easier to play highly technical stuff with 4 valves and she pointed out to me that cornet players manage just fine which shut me up really quickly!

[Howellsimon]

So, just to update.....
Following everyone’s advice and suggestions, I am visiting a local music store at the weekend to trial a 955, 2056, Neo and a Sterling 1050 back to back...
I’ll let you know how it goes......
Thanks again. Simon

[daruby]

Best wishes in your search. Let us know what you think after your trip.

[John Morgan]

Hi, I play on a 956, having bought it from Quinn the Eskimo in 2017 for $2745, it was in mint condition.

Below is a link to a video for a solo competition where I used the horn.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2a8KUSf79yc

As the other posts already said, it hasn't got great ergonomics, and the 4th valve is pretty much useless, intonation is quirky, BUT it still sounds and feels like a Besson Sovereign.
(I've had the 1st and 3rd slides cut, and often have to swap the tuning slide with the longer 4th valve slide to get it to play in tune in warm weather).

Prior to buying this horn I was playing a Wessex 3 valve which I bought for 570gbp (plus 120gbp for shipping). Intonation on this horn was hard work, but believe it or not lefreque plates helped. The horn itself, and the valves felt flimsy and the metal feels hollow and light. The sound wasn't anything special (lefreque plates did give it more focus),

If I was to do more baritone playing (I spend 90% of my time on euph) then I would sell the 956, throw in another $2000 to get a 3 valve Sovereign (German made) or Neo.

The Prestige I tried in 2009 was absolutely fantastic in every way, just too dark for my taste (and I'll admit that I like the baritone sound brighter than most people).

I have not tried the Wessex 4 valve, so I will not comment.

That is some FINE playing, Jeffrey. Thanks for sharing.

[Howellsimon]

So, I’ve played them all and ruled out the 1050 and the 955 - because I make them sound trombone like. (Someone independent also agreed)
That leaves the 2056 and the Neo. Both sound great.
God knows which to choose .......????

[Magikarp]

So, I’ve played them all and ruled out the 1050 and the 955 - because I make them sound trombone like. (Someone independent also agreed)
That leaves the 2056 and the Neo. Both sound great.
God knows which to choose .......????

Better a trombone sound than a baritone noise.

[Howellsimon]

And after a few hours of careful consideration, I’ve gone for the Neo..... Collecting it tomorrow..... ! 😁

[Howellsimon]

Better a trombone sound than a baritone noise.

Our bandmaster in a 2019 rehearsal:
‘Baritones, I want you to sound more like the trombones’
As quick as a flash my section mate said:
‘What? Flat and out of time?’
Couldn’t have said it better myself..... 🤣🤣

[daruby]

Congratulations. Excellent choice. BTW, my Sterling 1050 is the gold brass "Heavy Bell" version which supports a better dynamic range and warmer sound.

As a first baritone, I find myself doubling with trombones or euphoniums, doing octaves with solo cornets, and of course playing lower end of the horn section. Each role requires a different sound, great listening, and musical sensitivity. Thus, sometimes I need to sound like a trombone, sometimes like a horn, sometimes like a slightly "crisper" euphonium, and every once in a while, a solo lick (usually high and quiet at the beginning of 2nd movement of a test piece after a huge blow in the 1st mvmt.!)

So for me, the ability to vary the quality of sound to the specific role being performed by the baritone at any given time is an essential element.

Of course, my role model for sound has been Katrina Marzella for the last 10+ years. Now that she has retired from Black Dyke, their new solo baritone, Mike Cavanaugh, is just stunning. I believe he plays either a Geneva or NEO with Dyke.

[Howellsimon]

Thanks Doug. I’m looking forward to getting used to it - and of course practicing without a 4th valve.....
Without a doubt, all 4 horns I played today were absolutely fantastic, just me that couldn’t produce the colours of sounds out of the 955 and 1050 - and in the case of the 955, I couldn’t help but over blow it. It was very tough to decide - was in a practise room for about 3 hours in total and had ‘blind’ listeners (brass band players) for their comments !!! God, it was a tough decision, but I’m sitting here now, content with the decision and it’s nice to know I have something that should last me the rest of my playing days (being realistic, not morbid)
Massive thanks for your help and suggestions and comments.

[TheJH]

Of course, my role model for sound has been Katrina Marzella for the last 10+ years. Now that she has retired from Black Dyke, their new solo baritone, Mike Cavanaugh, is just stunning. I believe he plays either a Geneva or NEO with Dyke.

Mike Cavanagh uses a Besson 955 actually.
And agreed, Katrina Marzella's sound is a great inspiration and something to strive for, although I personally like a slightly clearer sound when playing baritone myself

[daruby]

Mike Cavanagh uses a Besson 955 actually.

Thank you for the update. One of the most beautiful sounding 955s I have ever heard!