Mouthpiece Material

[Micah.Dominic.Parsons-OFFLINE]

Hello everyone,

I recently had an AR Resonance Mouthpiece created for me in a bronze material and I was really suprised by the responsiveness of the mouthpiece which has made me rather curious to find the differences in response and performance between mouthpieces made for the following core material which includes Brass, Stainless Steel, Bronze and Titanium.

I was wondering if anyone had any experiences of different materials which they would be able to share with me.

Best Wishes,

Micah Dominic Parsons

[Fujiifilm]

Hi Micah,

What particularly did you like about the bronze mouthpiece compared to brass? I've been curious about bronze since seeing Gail Robertson had a custom model made through Warburton, also in bronze.

For me, I've only tried stainless steel (specifically, a Giddings EXL-M on loan from a friend). Overall, the feel of stainless steel on my chops was very comfortable, similar to the gold plate Denis Wick I currently use.

To my ears it seemed like I could get better clarity in articulation and tone color seemed to darken a bit with the stainless steel. However, I do want to note that the dimensions of the EXL are a bit different than my Wick 4, so that certainly could have an effect as well.

Another material I've noticed is starting to be used is sterling silver. Noah Gladstone (owner of TheBrassArk in Los Angeles) and Bob Reeves Mouthpieces have been working on some prototype trombone designs in sterling silver.

[Micah.Dominic.Parsons-OFFLINE]

Hello Fujiifilm,

I have to admit, I love how responsive my Bronze AR Resonance Mouthpiece is, it just seems to have an energy which is really quite exciting and has made me curious to explore mouthpieces made from other material.

This is really interesting to hear. I know that stainless steel is more expensive but if it works and responds well then that is the main factor in this. I will have to explore this further.

Best Wishes,

Micah Dominic Parsons

[guidocorona]

Hello Mika, besides responsiveness, have you observed any obvious difference in tone and other audible characteristics that you might impute to bronze vs brass?

Regards, Guido

[Micah.Dominic.Parsons-OFFLINE]

Hello Guidocorona,

It is great to hear from you, I have to admit I find the feel of the bronze mouthpiece really comfortable although I had asked for very specific measurements to be incorporated into the design and you would probably have to get two very similar mouthpieces in both bronze and brass to get a fair comparison.

Best Wishes,

Micah Dominic Parsons

[spkissane]

If you're wondering about steel and titanium, you should reach out to Ivan Giddings. He obviously knows a huge amount about both and would probably be happy to tell you about the differences/benefits to each material.

I got a Giddings DHWA-S mouthpiece in steel around seven years ago and immediately stopped mouthpiece searching. It just feels like the perfect mouthpiece for me in all respects.

[Micah.Dominic.Parsons-OFFLINE]

Hello Spkissane,

I am rather curious about this material and I have started to make enquires to find out a little more about the differences and benefits to each material. It is crazy how the material of a mouthpiece can make such a different playing experience.

Best Wishes,

Micah Dominic Parsons

[djwpe]

Micah- I wouldn’t assume that the response you feel from the AR mouthpiece is attributable to the material unless you’ve played an identical mouthpiece in other materials.

i seem to recall AR mouthpieces are very different in key dimensions to others.

Don Winston

PS: I hope you’re well, and your WWI project is moving along

[Micah.Dominic.Parsons-OFFLINE]

Hello Don,

How is everything going your end? I really hope you are keeping well! We are long over due a catch up!

My AR Mouthpiece is in a Bronze material and is quite similar to the David Childs Mouthpiece externally and the Steven Mead SM4XR internally. I think a lot of testing would have to be done to really explore the subject of materials and their effects in a musical sense. It is an interesting topic to be exploring.

The project is really going well. I had a draft of the first movement which looks absolutely superb and I also have some artwork which is currently being drawn and looks really good. I cannot wait to see what else will happen in the coming weeks and months ahead.

Best Wishes,

Micah Dominic Parsons

[miketeachesclass]

I know this thread is almost a year old, but I thought I'd add a bit.

I just received a Titanium version of the Stainless piece I've been playing.

It's a Giddings DHWA-S, which is apparently similar in size to a SM4U, created for Danny Helseth.

I had been playing the stainless version, which feels awesome on my chops, but I felt like it dampened some of the vibration I get on a brass piece. As such, the upper harmonics felt like they were dampened. I get the impression that this is one of the primary complaints people have when playing stainless. I personally interpret this as a "more core, less brilliance" kind of sound.

On the other hand, with the Titanium piece, it feels like there's a little more feedback to the chops when playing, and I feel like the upper harmonics are more present. It's slightly less "slippery" on my chops. I suppose that some people may feel that this makes the piece "brighter", but I personally feel that it's easier to make the piece sing with a vibrance I like. Maybe this is attributable to the lower mass of titanium vs. stainless. In any case, I really like the titanium.

[guidocorona]

Hello Mike, what you report is quite interesting.... Titanium alloys have a specific density hovering around 4.5. Thus they might require less energy to resonate than stainless steel, which has a density between 7.5 and 8.0.... Hence, at least in theory, stronger harmonics with Titanium Mouthpieces than stainless steel.

Tentatively extending this logic to brass, which has a density between 8.3 to 8.7, standard brass mouthpieces should sound a little darker than stainless steel ones.... But I have no idea if this is true... What is your experience?

I suspect there is more to mouthpieces being energized than metal density alone... Elasticity, and perhaps rigidity, for example, might have a role, and perhaps even ductility and malleability.

It would be interested to find out if any studies have been conducted in this area, by GW or other entities.

Regards, Guido

[miketeachesclass]

Hey Guido,

That's interesting. I find that stainless feels darker to me than brass, although I haven't played the same piece in brass as in stainless. So the design is also a factor there.

The only direct comparison I have is titanium vs stainless.

Hello Mike, what you report is quite interesting.... Titanium alloys have a specific density hovering around 4.5. Thus they might require less energy to resonate than stainless steel, which has a density between 7.5 and 8.0.... Hence, at least in theory, stronger harmonics with Titanium Mouthpieces than stainless steel.

Tentatively extending this logic to brass, which has a density between 8.3 to 8.7, standard brass mouthpieces should sound a little darker than stainless steel ones.... But I have no idea if this is true... What is your experience?

I suspect there is more to mouthpieces being energized than metal density alone... Elasticity, and perhaps rigidity, for example, might have a role, and perhaps even ductility and malleability.

It would be interested to find out if any studies have been conducted in this area, by GW or other entities.

Regards, Guido

[guidocorona]

Hello Mike, what makes a mouthpiece "sing" is a real technical/artistic furball, isn't it?

Material, interior/exterior design details, mass distribution.... How many variables are there really, and how do they all interact with one another.... And with the horn downstream.... A total headache generator

Saluti, Guido

[miketeachesclass]

Sure is... and I've got quite the varied collection of pieces!

[guidocorona]

Yes, I did read that you have been safariing on eupho mouthpieces.... Just as I did in earlier times for High brass MPs

Do you have Alliance DC series in your collection? I confess that I am in love with DC4.... And my safarically-prone soul is wondering about eventually experimenting with DC2 and DC3.

G.