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Thread: Epoxy Coating on Satin Silver Plate - Can this be of benefit?

  1. Epoxy Coating on Satin Silver Plate - Can this be of benefit?

    A great man and restoration master, Mr. Lee Stofer, is soon to finish the restoration of my Besson New Standard (pic below). It is exquisite, and I would very much like to keep the finish like new. As this is satin silver with bright accents, we are considering utilizing a baked on epoxy to coat the plating to prevent tarnishing. I have read pros and cons. I ask the council for your knowledge on the subject, if available.
    First, why is this not done more often? Does the epoxy not generally bind well to silver plating specifically? The question for me is whether to keep the silver plating unlacquered and deal with "polishing" the silver as needed with something like a Haggerty's spray polish/damp cloth as previously suggested by Mr. Werden, or would a modern epoxy coating actually provide a great benefit in providing a robust layer of protection?
    As always on this forum, I truly appreciate this is available, and thank you for any knowledge you can provide.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Besson New Standard.jpg  
    Last edited by longhornpatino; 11-13-2020 at 07:04 AM.

  2. First, STUNNING! This is going to be aa gorgeous instrument that you will appreciate for as long as you own it. Congratulations!

    Second, I know that Adams uses lacquer on their brushed finishes (silver or brass). This seems to wear well and is easy to clean. Look at pictures of the bell of John Morgan's E3. It has brushed sterling silver on the outside and the inner bell is polished. The body of his horn is largely brushed yellow brass (with brushed nickel accents) and some red brass tubing in the tuning slide. It is very attractive, but the visual impact is different than a classic New Standard.

    I don't know what the impact would be on the appearance of the satin finish. Surely the polished silver will look great. You don't want the satin finish to end up shiny however.

    Doug
    Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
    Concord Band
    Winchendon Winds
    Townsend Military Band

  3. Thank you, Mr. Ruby. I am over the moon, and the last thing I want to do is make a decision on a step that may end up to be counterproductive. Your point on the potential to change the aesthetic of the satin finish is well taken. Thank you.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Hidden Valley, AZ
    Posts
    1,034
    I have a restored New Standard in satin.

    I've tried every possible method to 'clean' the satin finish without gradually bringing it to 'polished' state.

    Every time you rub it with polish and a (no matter how soft) cloth, you are flattening the microscopic little mountains of pure silver. Eventually, you wind up with an unattractive horn, neither satin nor shiny.

    Note this is not the same process as brushing, as used on Adams.

    Satin silver is achieved by grit blasting the raw brass horn, then plating it. I know of no method of preserving satin by coating with sprayed on finish.

    That being said, I use Tarnex and a small paintbrush to smarten up my horn. Wear rubber gloves, and do small areas at a time outdoors and rinse with water than move on.

    If Tarnex dries before rinsing, it will streak.

    My horn still looks new after some 8 years. I process it about once a year when it starts to get silver sulphide spots. (Silver oxide is white and rare, btw).

    Dennis
    Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by longhornpatino View Post
    The question for me is whether to keep the silver plating unlacquered and deal with "polishing" the silver as needed with something like a Haggerty's spray polish/damp cloth as previously suggested by Mr. Werden,...
    I still vote for my method! Dennis has a lovely horn and obviously takes VERY good care of it. Having never tried his system in toto I can't compare directly from experience. But the Haggerty tarnish preventative did an excellent job and kept the horn looking nice for a long time. I actually was a bit hybrid-ish in my treatment. For normal, light tarnish I would do the Haggerty treatment again. But sometimes some black spots would show up, usually in between the valve casings. I have been know to sneak a little Tarn-X between the casings do avoid having to rub more than necessary, and then I'd then use the Haggerty spray.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Summerfield, Florida Sturgis, SD (summers)
    Posts
    1,867
    Well, my ears were burning so I will chime in. I do have the brushed finish with lacquer, and I love it. Very, very easy to keep nice, and I have had it over three years now. The inside of the bell I believe is lacquered, also. I never have to do anything other than use a damp soft cloth to wipe the horn off. It is very easy to keep clean and nice.

    If I know things right, I believe that epoxy (which has a chemical hardener) is sprayed on in usually one coat and baked, whereas regular cellulose lacquer is sprayed on and let to air dry, in perhaps more than one coat. And that epoxy is more durable than lacquer. I owned a Besson way back in the early 70's and it had a frosted (satin) finish. I remember well that the finish required quite a bit of work to keep looking nice. I remember having to frequently get the "black" (tarnish) off of the satin finish. I would venture to say that Lee probably knows what the outcome of putting epoxy over the horn would look like and last like. Unless he doesn't, I would probably take his advice, and if he is leaning toward doing the epoxy, I would probably give him the go ahead.

    By the way, you picked one superlative person to work on your horn. I had a couple things done to my Adams by Lee Stofer, then I had my B&H Imperial worked on by him. Both jobs world class, A1, super-duper. Lee is excellent. Trust him.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium,
    1973 F. E. Olds & Son Studio Model T-31 Baritone
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Year Round Except Summer:
    Kingdom of the Sun (KOS) Concert Band, Ocala, FL (Euphonium)
    KOS Brass Quintet (Trombone, Euphonium)
    Summer Only:
    Rapid City Municipal Band, Rapid City, SD (Euphonium)
    Rapid City New Horizons Band (Euphonium)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Summerfield, Florida Sturgis, SD (summers)
    Posts
    1,867
    Quote Originally Posted by highpitch View Post
    ....Every time you rub it with polish and a (no matter how soft) cloth, you are flattening the microscopic little mountains of pure silver. Eventually, you wind up with an unattractive horn, neither satin nor shiny....Dennis
    My 1956 Boosey & Hawkes Imperial probably started out with a satin finish. When I got it, the metal seemed more like gun metal. Not shiny and not satin. Now I don't think it is necessarily unattractive, just not the way it used to look. I had Lee do some work on it, but the finish remained the same. Here is the post where I did a comprehensive review of it with pictures:

    http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthr...nium-Excellent!

    It may not be obvious, but the inside of the bell is much more shinier than the rest of the horn. So I suspect this is the outcome you "could" get with a satin horn over time (many years), unless you were as careful as Dennis is in maintaining the finish.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium,
    1973 F. E. Olds & Son Studio Model T-31 Baritone
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Year Round Except Summer:
    Kingdom of the Sun (KOS) Concert Band, Ocala, FL (Euphonium)
    KOS Brass Quintet (Trombone, Euphonium)
    Summer Only:
    Rapid City Municipal Band, Rapid City, SD (Euphonium)
    Rapid City New Horizons Band (Euphonium)

  8. Once again, y'all come through! Thank you!! Of resounding note, I absolutely trust Mr. Stofer. Over the years, I have also learned to trust you group of fine gentlemen. I appreciate the input.

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