Introducing a new Euphonium to the market the ACB Doubler's Euphonium

[davewerden]

The 321 for me, and it's not especially close.

Could you elaborate a bit? I listened last night with good headphones and that was not my impression. What did you like about the 321 better? Tone? Or...?

Yours is less expensive--a better comp might be the entry level Yamaha.

Isn't the 321 the entry level Yamaha (for 4 valves)? As their non-compensating model, I'm not aware they had a cheaper 4-valve option.

[Fujiifilm]

Isn't the 321 the entry level Yamaha (for 4 valves)? As their non-compensating model, I'm not aware they had a cheaper 4-valve option.

I agree. The only other 4-valve non-compensating model Yamaha produces (as far as I'm aware) is the 621, which is a 3+1 setup, but I'm also pretty sure they're not readily imported into the U.S. market, and are more expensive than the 321.

[notaverygoodname]

I maintain what I said on YouTube. Maybe the microphone isn't telling the whole story, but the Doubler sounds really similar to the old Bessons, to me. Not my favorite Euphonium sound, but I liked the Yamaha even less. Seems like a pretty good deal. You get a more modern 12" bell and large shank receiver with the old school .580" bore and classic tone bath type of sound.

[Shawn]

Could you elaborate a bit? I listened last night with good headphones and that was not my impression. What did you like about the 321 better? Tone? Or...?




Isn't the 321 the entry level Yamaha (for 4 valves)? As their non-compensating model, I'm not aware they had a cheaper 4-valve option.

Yeah. Tone. And maybe a slight nudge on intonation.

As a value proposition I meant compare it to the 200-series Yamahas...at that point the value proposition seems clear. The Yamaha 201 is $2K. So you're less expensive, you've got the fourth valve the Yamaha doesn't, and I'm guessing you're not getting beaten for tone.

And my preference for the 321 is obviously subjective... look at what NAVGN says just above. Sounds like an old Besson to him, which he's not over the moon about, but prefers it to the 321.

[davewerden]

Thanks for clarifying the opinions already expressed. FWIW, during the 10 years I was a Besson artist I played on a 967, which had a 12" bell. large shank receiver, and a .580 bore. Perhaps this horn is made in that concept.

[AustinCustomBrass]

Thanks for clarifying the opinions already expressed. FWIW, during the 10 years I was a Besson artist I played on a 967, which had a 12" bell. large shank receiver, and a .580 bore. Perhaps this horn is made in that concept.

Yes this was our intent...

with no trade shows happening in the near future (sigh) I have an idea to run by y'all:

If anyone would possibly want to take the horn for a test spin (US only due to shipping costs) please send an email to info@austincustombrass.com. Perhaps we can get enough people to test the horn each for a day or two upon receipt of the horn. I'll pay all shipping charges of course.

Best,
T

[John Morgan]

Yes this was our intent...

with no trade shows happening in the near future (sigh) I have an idea to run by y'all:

If anyone would possibly want to take the horn for a test spin (US only due to shipping costs) please send an email to info@austincustombrass.com. Perhaps we can get enough people to test the horn each for a day or two upon receipt of the horn. I'll pay all shipping charges of course.

Best,
T

I am game to try it out, and I might be a good subject. I have a high end Adams E3, a B&H Imperial and a Wessex Dolce. So sort of the gamut between top of the line modern, old but really good horn, and a nicely made Chinese horn that is a lot of bang for the buck.

If you would like me to try it, let me know. I think you have all my contact info from having bought the Adams TB1 from you and a M.B. case.

Oops, just reread your message, you said send an email to you, sorry about that. I will send an email.

[AustinCustomBrass]

I am game to try it out, and I might be a good subject. I have a high end Adams E3, a B&H Imperial and a Wessex Dolce. So sort of the gamut between top of the line modern, old but really good horn, and a nicely made Chinese horn that is a lot of bang for the buck.

If you would like me to try it, let me know. I think you have all my contact info from having bought the Adams TB1 from you and a M.B. case.

Oops, just reread your message, you said send an email to you, sorry about that. I will send an email.

Fantastic John! We'll ship you one out next week to toot on and have some fun. We'll then have you ship to the next tester (we'll provide all the labels and packing materials as well).

Thanks so much and hope you are well!

Best,
Trent

[Shawn]

What a gracious offer.
Unlucky for me I'm not in the States.

[Beef]

Mr.Austin if I may ask again, what sets this horn apart from your standard Jinbao/Mack Euphonium? Get into the technical details if you're able to. I'm very interested what sets this horn apart from the rest other than the 4th valve lever design, the stainless steel valves(Compared to Jinabo/Mack's Monel), and the horn being yellow brass all throughout(Including the leadpipe) ?

[dsurkin]

Mr.Austin if I may ask again, what sets this horn apart from your standard Jinbao/Mack Euphonium? Get into the technical details if you're able to. I'm very interested what sets this horn apart from the rest other than the 4th valve lever design, the stainless steel valves(Compared to Jinabo/Mack's Monel), and the horn being yellow brass all throughout(Including the leadpipe) ?

Just a quick note: my Mack Brass horn has stainless steel valves. I think the valve set changed from year to year.

[Beef]

My apologies, I was talking about the current EU1150s, although I do remember the older ones having stainless steel valves.

[Ajeasley]

I was able to play the ACB Doubler's Euphonium today at the Austin Custom Brass shop in Kansas City today - perks of living in the area! Props to the folks at ACB for a great customer experience even in the midst of the pandemic. If I happen to find a few extra thousand dollars sitting around, I'll be back for the Adams E2 I was able to play at the shop!

They had three different horns, one each in lacquer, a brushed lacquer finish, and silver plate. Aesthetically, these horns look good! I like the brushed finish look myself. Fit and finish was good on all three, though the clear lacquer finished horn had the most fine tuning done to it and it was, consequently, the best playing and also had the best valve action. I played all three horns with my Giddings Kadja as well as a Wick Heritage 4AL, just to see how the horn played with a different mouthpiece.

Build Quality
Nothing with these horns felt cheap. My inspection wasn't especially thorough, but the construction felt solid. The silver plating on that horn looked pretty good - I believe that this has been an area of concern with Chinese imports over the last few years. I'm no expert, but everything seemed sturdy in my hands.

Ergonomics
Compared to my Yamaha 641, the ACB is more comfortable to hold and play. The leadpipe is farther up the bell and angled such that playing while sitting or standing felt reasonably good. In terms of weight, it didn't feel remarkably heavy or light - just like a 4 valve compensating horn. With that said, I'm a fairly average shaped adult male and made my living for awhile carrying a government-issued Willson around the parade field, so my tolerance for such things may be a little off. Your mileage may vary.

tldr - it felt fine.

Tone Quality/General Performance
I had better luck with the Kadja than the Wick 4AL, but the Kadja is my daily driver mouthpiece so that's not unexpected. I could hear the Besson influence in the horn, and the tone was generally pleasing. Response was pretty good and the horn was pretty consistent from top to bottom. The high register spoke very clearly. The compensating and pedal register were a little iffy, but I think that's on me rather than the horn. I played through several lyrical and not-so-lyrical excerpts and things seemed to work well enough. Dynamically, it handled the softs very well, and the loud's well enough - its dynamic tolerances reminded me of a Yamaha 842 army horn I had about 10 years ago. That wasn't a deal breaker though; I think I could take the horn to go play the Planets Suite with an orchestra or to a concert with my unit and it wouldn't hold me back much at all. Ultimately, the horn pretty much got out of the way and I sounded like me, so kudos there!

Intonation
I didn't go to the same amount of effort that Dr. Werden has put in to the intonation chart resources that we have on the site, but I did kick the tires with a tuner. For me, it was a struggle to get the horn to blow in tune without pushing the tuning slide all the way in. In hindsight, I think that my Yamaha blows sharp and I've likely gotten used to it over the years. At any rate, the 5th and 6th partials were pretty good - 6th was a bit high, but at the end of the day it's a brass instrument. There wasn't anything in that register that one couldn't learn to adjust to. The 3rd partial C and D were really flat with 1st, 2nd, and 4th valve tuning slides pushed all the way in.

Overall
I will admit that I have not played a Wessex, Mack, or any of the other budget conscious compensating euphoniums over the last few years save for what I think was a JP374 at the TUSAB conference back in like 2013, so I don't have much of a basis for comparison with horns at this price point. I think ACB's doubler's horn is a great new addition and should be on a buyer's short list if one is looking for a good horn with less than $2K to spend. I have colleagues looking for a horn like this, and will refer them here. Was it in the same ballpark as the Adams E2 that I played today? Not at all, but it comes in at less than a quarter of the price. If that Adams is a Mercedes or BMW and my Yamaha is a well-equipped Honda, the ACB is a Kia Forte - a great option at the price point that does about 90% of what the other offerings do.

Compared to the non-compensating Yamaha 321 and whichever model King it is that are both ubiquitous in American school band rooms, this horn definitely sounds more like a "grown up" euphonium sound. If I was sitting in for a wind band gig with professionals/good college players/equally strong amateurs, I would rather have the ACB horn than the non comp options. Also, my pinky dexterity is horrendous so I very much prefer the 3+1 configuration. The one area where I would give the nod to Yamaha and King is proven durability. They can take quite a beating and still play; we know that because they have. The Doubler's euphonium may be just fine handling the rigors of teenagers using borrowed equipment, but we won't know until we find out.

I would gladly recommend this horn for any trombone/tuba players that play euphonium often enough to justify owning a horn, as well as euphonium students in high school and up through college in music ed. If you have a little more cash to spend and have the luxury of patience in your search, you may be able to find a used Besson Sovereign/New Standard or older Yamaha (641 or the original 642) for a bit more that may suit your needs better, but the ACB euphonium is new and shiny and gets the once over from one of the best brass shops around. This horn is a tremendous value!

[AustinCustomBrass]

I was able to play the ACB Doubler's Euphonium today at the Austin Custom Brass shop in Kansas City today - perks of living in the area! Props to the folks at ACB for a great customer experience even in the midst of the pandemic. If I happen to find a few extra thousand dollars sitting around, I'll be back for the Adams E2 I was able to play at the shop!

They had three different horns, one each in lacquer, a brushed lacquer finish, and silver plate. Aesthetically, these horns look good! I like the brushed finish look myself. Fit and finish was good on all three, though the clear lacquer finished horn had the most fine tuning done to it and it was, consequently, the best playing and also had the best valve action. I played all three horns with my Giddings Kadja as well as a Wick Heritage 4AL, just to see how the horn played with a different mouthpiece.

Build Quality
Nothing with these horns felt cheap. My inspection wasn't especially thorough, but the construction felt solid. The silver plating on that horn looked pretty good - I believe that this has been an area of concern with Chinese imports over the last few years. I'm no expert, but everything seemed sturdy in my hands.

Ergonomics
Compared to my Yamaha 641, the ACB is more comfortable to hold and play. The leadpipe is farther up the bell and angled such that playing while sitting or standing felt reasonably good. In terms of weight, it didn't feel remarkably heavy or light - just like a 4 valve compensating horn. With that said, I'm a fairly average shaped adult male and made my living for awhile carrying a government-issued Willson around the parade field, so my tolerance for such things may be a little off. Your mileage may vary.

tldr - it felt fine.

Tone Quality/General Performance
I had better luck with the Kadja than the Wick 4AL, but the Kadja is my daily driver mouthpiece so that's not unexpected. I could hear the Besson influence in the horn, and the tone was generally pleasing. Response was pretty good and the horn was pretty consistent from top to bottom. The high register spoke very clearly. The compensating and pedal register were a little iffy, but I think that's on me rather than the horn. I played through several lyrical and not-so-lyrical excerpts and things seemed to work well enough. Dynamically, it handled the softs very well, and the loud's well enough - its dynamic tolerances reminded me of a Yamaha 842 army horn I had about 10 years ago. That wasn't a deal breaker though; I think I could take the horn to go play the Planets Suite with an orchestra or to a concert with my unit and it wouldn't hold me back much at all. Ultimately, the horn pretty much got out of the way and I sounded like me, so kudos there!

Intonation
I didn't go to the same amount of effort that Dr. Werden has put in to the intonation chart resources that we have on the site, but I did kick the tires with a tuner. For me, it was a struggle to get the horn to blow in tune without pushing the tuning slide all the way in. In hindsight, I think that my Yamaha blows sharp and I've likely gotten used to it over the years. At any rate, the 5th and 6th partials were pretty good - 6th was a bit high, but at the end of the day it's a brass instrument. There wasn't anything in that register that one couldn't learn to adjust to. The 3rd partial C and D were really flat with 1st, 2nd, and 4th valve tuning slides pushed all the way in.

Overall
I will admit that I have not played a Wessex, Mack, or any of the other budget conscious compensating euphoniums over the last few years save for what I think was a JP374 at the TUSAB conference back in like 2013, so I don't have much of a basis for comparison with horns at this price point. I think ACB's doubler's horn is a great new addition and should be on a buyer's short list if one is looking for a good horn with less than $2K to spend. I have colleagues looking for a horn like this, and will refer them here. Was it in the same ballpark as the Adams E2 that I played today? Not at all, but it comes in at less than a quarter of the price. If that Adams is a Mercedes or BMW and my Yamaha is a well-equipped Honda, the ACB is a Kia Forte - a great option at the price point that does about 90% of what the other offerings do.

Compared to the non-compensating Yamaha 321 and whichever model King it is that are both ubiquitous in American school band rooms, this horn definitely sounds more like a "grown up" euphonium sound. If I was sitting in for a wind band gig with professionals/good college players/equally strong amateurs, I would rather have the ACB horn than the non comp options. Also, my pinky dexterity is horrendous so I very much prefer the 3+1 configuration. The one area where I would give the nod to Yamaha and King is proven durability. They can take quite a beating and still play; we know that because they have. The Doubler's euphonium may be just fine handling the rigors of teenagers using borrowed equipment, but we won't know until we find out.

I would gladly recommend this horn for any trombone/tuba players that play euphonium often enough to justify owning a horn, as well as euphonium students in high school and up through college in music ed. If you have a little more cash to spend and have the luxury of patience in your search, you may be able to find a used Besson Sovereign/New Standard or older Yamaha (641 or the original 642) for a bit more that may suit your needs better, but the ACB euphonium is new and shiny and gets the once over from one of the best brass shops around. This horn is a tremendous value!

Thank you so much for coming and trying out the horns. Sorry I missed you in the shop yesterday we really appreciate you coming and for this great review. We know the ACB will never be the Adams, Besson, Sterling, or Wilson but we firmly believe it's a fine horn in the price range we have put it. The Kia analogy works well with me (I had a Kia Soul for years before getting my Chevy Volt). Well built, no-frills, will do the job nicely!

We are getting ready to start shipping out the travelin' trial euphonium today or Tuesday! We are certainly bummed we cannot bring these horns to shows like Midwest, NAMM (I had plans on exhibiting there for the first time with my shop), TMEA, etc but we are excited to see what folks say about these horns.

Best regards and thanks again!
-T

[daruby]

Trent,

Which one are you sending, Brass, Silver or Brushed?

Thanks, Doug