Yamaha YEP-641

[eunlee02]

Hi! I am a high school senior auditioning as a music performance major at various colleges. I’ve read a thread about YEP-641 here once but I wanted to ask for myself as well. I’m planning on buying a used YEP-641 with a few dings and dents for $2300, and I was just wondering how good of a horn it is. I can’t seem to find any videos or information on google and I thought it’d be the best to ask here on forum. I’m currently playing on a school owned XO euphonium.

Would it be the best fit for me?

I’m also looking at John Packer jp-274 and Wessex Dolce which are cheaper than YEP-641.

[davewerden]

Welcome to the forum!

The 641 is a good, solid horn. One of my students had one when he won the Falcone competition (he bought an Adams shortly after that). So they are considered a pro-level instrument, and some folks like them and some don't (as with all instruments).

Here is a graph of the intonation of that horn compared to the Packer 374 (I don't have a graph of the 274) and the Wessex Dolce:



If you read around the forum you'll find that the Packer and the Dolce are well-liked by many here. Wessex has shown very solid customer service and are quite aggressive at keeping quality high from the Chinese factory. I'm not as certain of how Packer controls quality from the Chinese factory they use (that is neither a positive nor negative opinion - I just don't have the info). And of course Yamaha's pro series have always had a good reputation for quality control.

[RickF]

As Dave said the 641 is a solid horn. I played one for about 14 years. The 6th partials are pretty sharp as you can see in Dave’s chart but with some alternate fingerings manageable (4th valve for the F for instance). The 641 has an 11 inch, one-piece bell - which I think helps it get a very focused tone. I still have mine but it’s on loan to my grandson still.

[Ajeasley]

I bought a 641 used in 2007 and am still using it. Compared to the various horns I've played as an army player (the OG Yamaha 642, Yamaha 842, Willson 2950, 642 Neo) I can point to things I have liked and disliked about each in terms of intonation, sound, response, etc. Nothing about the 641 is a deal breaker, in my opinion, and the build quality is solid.

I would agree with Rick - mine is very focused and seems to bear some similarities to the old Besson that also served as the inspiration for the Willson 2900. If I had a whole bunch of cash to burn, I wouldn't mind shopping for an Adams/Shires/Neo or something like that and would consider it an upgrade. With that said, the horn definitely isn't holding me back - that would be having a non-musician day job and a toddler keeping me from practicing...

In terms of price, $2300 sounds like a fair deal contingent upon how many dents and dings constitutes "a few". Other things to consider would be the condition of the lacquer/plating on a horn that isn't getting any younger, as well as the valves. A positive for the Yamaha is that parts should be readily available.

[eunlee02]

Thank you so much for the detailed info on all three horns and the intonation graph as well! I think I’m going to proceed and buy the Yamaha as its reputation has always been good. One day I want to try Wessex and John Packer line though, they seem to be very nice horns. Thank you again, I really appreciate it

[eunlee02]

It’s interesting how sharp those 6th partials get, I wasn’t aware of it until I saw the chart. It’s good to hear that it helps with focused tone though, I can’t wait to try it out. Thank you for the response!

[eunlee02]

Thanks for sharing your experiences with the horn! So it’ll probably be good for me for right now and maybe get a better one once I save some money in the future. Thanks again!

[RickF]

I found an old recording of me playing the solo in Holst's Second Suite in F (March movement) on my 641 about nine years ago. (Pretty sure you're familiar with this solo). Sixth partial 'F' I played open while trying to lip it down. You can hear where it's still a bit sharp. That was one complaint I had with my 641 as it was hard to lip. Think it might be due to the high bracing of the top bow to the the bell but not sure.

Holst Second Suite in F - euph solo:

Below is a picture of the YEP-642 (L) and YEP-641 (R)

[davewerden]

FWIW, for a sharp 6th partial, I used the following on my Sovereign sustained notes:

F (G in treble): 4
E (F# treble): 24
Eb (F treble): 13

[eunlee02]

Is there a significant difference between YEP-641 and YEP-642?

[RickF]

The 642 bell is 12" and not one piece. Also notice in the pictures shared above that the top bell bracing is lower on the 642 than on the 641. You really can't see the brace on the 641 as it's a 'butt brace' I think they call it up as high as they can get it. Also the lead-pipe on the 641 is 3/4" shorter which requires the player to pull out the MTS (main tuning slide) further to be in tune. With the lead-pipe being lower means you'll need to hold up the horn a bit higher. I used a 2" thick pillow to help hold it up when seated.

Fingerings shared above by Dave do work, but on my 641 the tone for concert 'E' (treble F#) fingered 4-2 although better in tune didn't sound as good. Might just be my 641 though.

[daruby]

Yes! They are completely different. The YEP641 still used some of the tooling from the non-compensated 4-inline YEP-321. Here is the relationship:

1. The YEP-321 was Yamaha's first "good" euphonium. To this day it is a nice intermediate instrument that plays well, 4 valves inline, has a small shank and an 11" bell. The YEP-321 has been one of the top intermediate student horns as well as popular with tuba and trombone doublers due to its layout.
2. The YEP-621 built on the YEP-321 but has a large shank receiver, is a 3+1 non compensating 4 valve instrument, has essentially the same 11" bell and some of the same wrap for 1-2-3 valves. The YEP-621 has never been officially imported to the US, though a few have migrated here. It is used as an "intermediate" in markets where students are clearly going to migrate to a 3+1 professional horn.
3, The YEP-641 is a fully compensating version of the YEP-621. It has the large shank, is a 3+1 valve layout, but still has the same 11" bell and some of the same wrap for the 1-2-3 valve slides as the 321.

Valve buttons, and caps are interchangeable between these three horns. I "think" actual pistons are interchangeable between the 321 and 621 as well.

The YEP-642 and YEP-642 NEO are completely different designs. The compensating valve wrap, valve layout, tubing, and its larger bell and bell design are all different. The YEP-842 Custom is quite different from the YEP-642 as well with different ergonomics, leadpipe, etc., though I think the actual valvesets are the same. The NEO and the Custom both are available with or without triggers these days.

[Davidus1]

The YEP 321 is a preferred horn for top jazz players as well.

[dsurkin]

Walter Barrett uses a Yamaha YP-641. He had a trigger added to it, and he may have had other work done to it over the years. He gets a beautiful tone from that instrument, and it blends well with the Besson that the second chair player uses (forget about me, I'm in fourth chair unless we have five people show up, then I'm fifth chair).