Besson Prestige

[MatzeEuph]

Hi together,
I have a question. I have the possibility to get an used Besson prestige 2052-2 from year 2004 made in England. What do you think is 5400€ to much money for that?
The instrument is in a good shape little scratches and dents, but good!
Thanks

[davewerden]

My rule of thumb is that 2/3 of the price of a new one is about right for a used horn in good condition. This one seems to fit that. If it were newer it might be worth more, and if it had more wear/dents/etc. it might be worth less. So your description sounds like it is priced about right.

[Shawn]

Feels high to me--esp. with other stuff being as it is.
1. We're still in a pandemic
2. Generally, the Internet will help you find good pricing
3. Specifically, there's often great prices published on this very message board.

My vote is to be patient.

[TheJH]

Also, it's made in 2004, which is in the 'risk period' of Besson, iirc.

[franz]

My rule of thumb is that 2/3 of the price of a new one is about right for a used horn in good condition. This one seems to fit that. If it were newer it might be worth more, and if it had more wear/dents/etc. it might be worth less. So your description sounds like it is priced about right.

I am considering purchasing a new Adams E3. If this is the case ( presumably, with the estimated time for realization and delivery, it will be by the end of the year or the beginning of 2021) I will have, with great regret, to put my personalized Prestige 2052-2 from 2007 in perfect condition up for sale. I was thinking of a figure of around 5000-5500 Euro, which is Ms. Werden's estimate.

[daruby]

The 2004 Prestige is a late, late "English" made Besson, though by that time the factory at Edgeware in London road had been shutdown, tooling and fabrication had moved to Schreiber-Keilwerth in Markneukirchen (which later became York), and parts were then shipped back to the UK for finally assembly and fitment. This awful (and poorly conceived) process culminated in the demise of the Boosey-Besson era when it went into receivership in 2005. AFAIK, these horns still had threads and valves that were Imperial and are not supported by current Besson spares, though consumables (guides, felts dampers, springs, etc.) are interchangeable. Even if the horn is in great shape, played well, and has been well maintained, it would not demand top dollar IMHO.

The 2007 instrument is an early Buffett-Besson instrument (I had one myself). Since 2007, there have been a few changes (change to 3rd valve wrap to make the instrument easier to hold) and other improvements (end of dreaded high B), but this horn would be fully parts interchangeable with a brand new instrument. Franz, I don't know what a new Prestige would cost in your country, but if 2/3 retail comes out to what you quote, then that seems reasonable. In the US, I would expect around a price from $5,500 - $6,500 for an instrument in very good to top condition. In Euro's this would be 4700€ - to 5500€.

Doug

[MatzeEuph]

Thank you so much for your information.
I will try it out and let you know how it turns out in the end.
Thanks guys

[MatzeEuph]

Also, it's made in 2004, which is in the 'risk period' of Besson, iirc.

„Risk period“ means short before closing the factory?

[TheJH]

„Risk period“ means short before closing the factory?

Yep, Doug provided a bit more information on that above. In other words, those are definitely try-before-buying instruments.

[MatzeEuph]

Today I played this horn.
Awesome sound 🤩.

They only thing I saw is a little bumpy area below the silver plating in the little tube beside the bell.
Valves are running very smoothly and noiseless. Little black areas at the silver plating where it is a pain to clean.
All removable tubing is working good. Trigger is running fine. From 2m away when the case was opened the horn looks new, very shiny.
The golden valve cap of valve 2 looks more used than the others.
I brought the price down to 5200€. The only thing I am worried is that bumpy area. If that is the tubing itself below the silver plate the horn is done. I think that is not repairable. Very little scratches and some very small dents in the lower bell.

[TheJH]

Today I played this horn.
Awesome sound 🤩.

They only thing I saw is a little bumpy area below the silver plating in the little tube beside the bell.
Valves are running very smoothly and noiseless. Little black areas at the silver plating where it is a pain to clean.
All removable tubing is working good. Trigger is running fine. From 2m away when the case was opened the horn looks new, very shiny.
The golden valve cap of valve 2 looks more used than the others.
I brought the price down to 5200€. The only thing I am worried is that bumpy area. If that is the tubing itself below the silver plate the horn is done. I think that is not repairable. Very little scratches and some very small dents in the lower bell.

What do you mean with 'little tube beside the bell'?
Do you mean the leadpipe (where the mouthpiece goes into) or the handrest (parallel to the valves)?

[MatzeEuph]

No not the lead pipe, it is the tube that goes up to the highest and turns to the right (highest tube) and goes down and up again to the bell.

[daruby]

That is the upper bow. Do you have pictures? Are you talking about distortions or dents in the brass or bubbles in the silver plating?

[MatzeEuph]

It’s a kind of bubbles, the silver plating is without damage.

[daruby]

No not the lead pipe, it is the tube that goes up to the highest and turns to the right (highest tube) and goes down and up again to the bell.

The "tube that turns to the right" is called the upper bow. The tube that connects from the tuning slide to the upper bow is the one I believe you are talking about. Do you have pictures? Are you talking about distortions or dents in the brass or bubbles in the silver plating? If bubbles in the silver plating, that suggests corrosion in the brass under the plating. Typically this is a sign of a poor or incomplete plating process. Don't know if this is a significant issue or not. Did you see similar silver plating issues anywhere else?

I do not know how far this instrument is away from where you live, but 5200€ is still a pretty high price for a horn that is 16 yrs old and was manufactured in the Besson 2004 era. Do you have a technician who can inspect the horn for you and advise?