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Cryogenic treatment of wind instruments

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  • franz
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2015
    • 392

    #16
    Never seen one. This guy, though, does just fine with this horn! https://youtu.be/0P2cesJaxIk
    2007 Besson Prestige 2052, 3D+ K&G mouthpiece; JP373 baritone, 4B modified K&G mouthpiece; Bach 42GO trombone, T4C K&G mouthpiece; 1973 Besson New Standard 3 compensated valves, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece; Wessex French C tuba, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece.

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    • bbocaner
      Senior Member
      • May 2009
      • 1449

      #17
      Originally posted by iMav View Post
      So, does this “harden” the metal? (Only thing I can think that it would do.) Might not be such a good idea if you’ve got a softer brass or silver bell for the specific properties those bring to the table.
      No, what it purportedly does is allow the molecules in the metal to re-align as the part warms back up again, reducing internal stresses where the metal was worked and where the molecules formed in a haphazard fashion when the molten metal originally quickly cooled. This is generally seen as bad as far as brass instruments are concerned. It's not the freezing that does it, it's the slowly bringing back up to room temperature.
      --
      Barry

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      • franz
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2015
        • 392

        #18
        Here is a brief description. It is a technology, developed in the United States on the initiative of NASA, aimed at improving the mechanical resistance and wear of almost all metals, as well as some polymers, through the use of cold. Through the use of special processors, capable of controlling the gradual lowering of the temperature with great precision, it is possible to "reorganize" the molecular tissue of the treated material, giving it an increase of up to 1000 times in the mechanical properties and resistance to heat. usury. The possible fields in which cryogenics allows to obtain important results are numerous and very different from each other, from that of tools (in steel, as well as in sintered materials) to that of sports engines, passing through the treatment of golf clubs as well as of musical instruments. Following a long period of experimentation, we are now able to offer this type of service to all companies interested in high-tech products in the metallurgical field. The Ice-Tech Cryogenic Treatment, backed by American equipment and know-how, ensures maximum yield in increasing all the mechanical properties, resistance to abrasion and oxidation of the treated materials. Cryogenic treatment (Deep CriogenicTreatment, DCT) takes place at the temperature of liquid nitrogen. This treatment, widely tested on steel, to which it gives a further increase in wear resistance compared to the traditional cold treatment, has also given excellent results on non-ferrous metals. Nowadays it is realized by means of microprocessor equipment capable of controlling the cooling of the chamber, in which the liquid nitrogen is introduced in the form of a dense fog. What is treated never comes into direct contact with liquid nitrogen. Microstructural analyzes carried out with the transmission electron microscope (TEM), have made it possible to identify a secondary precipitation of carbides which is much more extensive, fine, and homogeneously distributed in the cryogenically treated steel. The theories advanced for steels propose, as the cause of the phenomenon, the so-called conditioning of martensite at low temperatures. Since non-ferrous metals (for example brass alloys) also show improvement in mechanical properties, one is led to think that, even in these materials, there is a finer and more homogeneously distributed precipitation of carbides. WHY IS IT WORTH DOING IT? Because all brass musical instruments, during their construction, undergo a series of processes which, to a greater or lesser extent, condition their vibratory capacities. Even the best of musical instruments will retain some ''gray areas'' in which the brass plate will not be able to vibrate as it could. Thanks to technology, which today allows treatments to be carried out at very low temperatures in a controlled atmosphere, it is possible to eliminate those molecular stresses which hinder the propagation of vibrations along the pipes of musical instruments, freeing their voice. WHAT IT CONSISTS OF After a special preparation, the musical instruments are housed inside the cryogenic chamber at room temperature. With the aid of a computer that manages its operation, the chamber temperature is brought to approximately - 329 degrees F. This descent takes place very slowly, in order to avoid the risk of thermal shocks for the structure of the musical instruments. Once the process, the contents of the chamber are brought back, again very slowly, to room temperature. Given the delicacy of the process, it is possible to treat instruments, such as for example flutes, clarinets, saxes, trumpets and fully assembled brass instruments, implementing some targeted expedients. WHAT THE BENEFITS There are currently dozens of musical instruments treated and the impressions of musicians who have tried cryogenics can be generally summarized in the common feeling that the instrument ''sounds better''. Below is a brief list of the advantages found during the trials: 1-Sound production is much more immediate and fluid. 2-Since the energy that can be allocated to the sound is greater and the energy that is dispersed to get around residual obstacles is much less, it is possible to obtain a sound that is much richer in harmonics, fuller. The energy used is optimized in improving and obtaining the whole series of harmonics, rather than wasted in the ''noises''. 3-For the same reason, it is easier to obtain soft sounds and slowly detach the notes. 4-The timbre obtained will be purer, cleaner, more focused or better centered, depending on the terminology you prefer. 5-It is easier to obtain the extreme notes of the low register and of the high and high register. 6-The sounds obtained are more controllable from the point of view of intonation, in the sense that the instrument seems more sensitive to the variations that we want to transmit to it. 7-Less resistance in the production of sound, in the sense that the instrument acquires a greater will to vibrate. It is essentially as if, through the cryogenic treatment, as someone has summarized, the cobwebs are ''removed''. WHAT ARE THE RISKS? Virtually none! Assuming that the general condition of the musical instruments will be evaluated first; -The treatment is not incompatible with the lacquering of musical instruments, nor with silver and gold plating. -No risk of mechanical breakages (keys, chimneys, pumps, cylinders, etc.) -No dimensional modifications. However, it is possible that some cork (sax) and, much more rarely, some bearings may become detached. When this occurs, however, it is following a pre-existing condition of detachment. WHAT YOU CANNOT ASK FROM CRYOGENY -Cryogenics cannot transform a poor quality instrument into a high quality one. -The treatment will not transform an economic instrument into a refined and prestigious one. -The cryogenic cycle will not tune a musical instrument that is born totally out of tune. A musical instrument can present intonation problems due to both poor construction quality and insufficient maintenance. Cryogenics is not intended to correct misplaced holes or tuned tuning machines. That said, intonation certainly becomes more controllable after the treatment. HOW LONG DOES IT LAST? The total duration of the cycle is generally from 36 to 48 hours. A lot of liquid nitrogen is needed to run the cycle correctly. Nitrogen does not enter the processor in its liquid state and does not come into contact with your instrument, but in the form of a gas it is atomized uniformly. Musical instruments must be checked before each cycle in order to detect any anomalies and failures in advance. Once the process is complete, the musical instruments are checked again to verify their integrity and efficiency.
        Last edited by franz; 02-26-2023, 05:36 AM.
        2007 Besson Prestige 2052, 3D+ K&G mouthpiece; JP373 baritone, 4B modified K&G mouthpiece; Bach 42GO trombone, T4C K&G mouthpiece; 1973 Besson New Standard 3 compensated valves, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece; Wessex French C tuba, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece.

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        • hyperbolica
          Member
          • Feb 2018
          • 133

          #19
          Originally posted by bbocaner View Post
          No, what it purportedly does is allow the molecules in the metal to re-align as the part warms back up again, reducing internal stresses where the metal was worked and where the molecules formed in a haphazard fashion when the molten metal originally quickly cooled. This is generally seen as bad as far as brass instruments are concerned. It's not the freezing that does it, it's the slowly bringing back up to room temperature.
          Metallurgically, things really don't work that way. Warming metal can anneal it, and cooling it can induce stresses, but the annealing only works at elevated temperatures, not at low temp. Molecules can't move at low temps. Heat treating usually happens in an oven, and then the metal can be quenched quickly, or brought down slowly, depending if you want to relieve or induce stresses. There are tables for material, hardness, time, temp, rate, etc.

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