HBC Impressions

[Shawn]

Have ordered one for the Tenor Horn.
Will report back.
Gutted my Euph purchase was a lemon but the Tenor Horn has been fun all summer long.

[TheJH]

Hello from us at HBC here in Blighty!

As players and as engineers, it's been rivetingly interesting over the years to measure the threads for all the Euphoniums we make 4th HBCs for. To calculate the thread for each instrument, we measured the thread pitch, real pitch, crest flat, crest radius maximum, root radius, thread depth, flank length, major diameter, minor diameter and pitch diameter. The final calculation involves modifying those dimensions to cater for the 24 microns (μm) of silver plate we apply to each 4th HBC and from this, the thread can be cut and HBCs electro-plated. 1 mincon = 0.001 mm or in Imperial 0.00003937". God bless the Zeus Engineering Handbook - invaluable!

There are currently eleven Euphonium Brands that we make 4th HBCs for, with these Brands being sub-divided into various Models of Adams, Besson, Boosey & Co., Boosey & Hawkes, Geneva, Hirsbrunner, John Packer, Sterling, Wessex, Willson and Yamaha. Within the Brands/Models there are also sub-divisions of thread size; for example there are no less than three different threads for the current Besson range, with the Prestige 2051 being different to the Prestige 2052. Equally so the Yamaha Professional and Neo Models have a different thread to the Custom.

There's no surprise of course that most Chinese manufacturers like Jinbao copied the Bauerfeind valve group dimensions for Euphoniums and other brass instruments, as evidenced through our thread measuring of their instruments.

An astonishing find was that from 1923 to 1994+, the Boosey & Co/Boosey & Hawkes 4th Euphonium thread remained the same! We measured a Boosey & Co Class A Solbron Imperial Euphonium serial number 112137 made in November 1923 and not only was it the same as a 1982 Boosey & Hawkes "Round Stamp Globe" Sovereign but as a 1994 Edgware production Besson Sovereign too! Obviously in 1923 it was an Imperial thread and the same dimensions used through to 1994/possibly a bit beyond (sensible engineering). ISO metric threads then took-over with German production of Besson.

We also make 3rd HBCs for Sopranos, Cornets, Flugel Horns (3rd & 4th) and Tenor Horns, varyingly for Adams, Bach, B&S, Besson, Boosey & Hawkes, Couesnon, Courtois, Eclipse, Geneva, John Packer, Schilke, Sterling, Stomvi, Taylor and Yamaha. 'twas the same calculation process for each, so we now have a very detailed database of virtually all casing/bottom cap thread dimensions. It's taken years, but has been and continues to be great fun and we feel we're helping fellow brass musicians worldwide. High quality and good customer service are our cornerstones. It won't make us rich and that's not the object of the exercise, but we're helping - and that's the object of the exercise.

In development are HBCs for Baritones (a REAL challenge due to the minimal gap between the lower face of the standard bottom cap and the pipework) and for Tubas.

Very interesting read, thank you!

Very curious indeed that Besson has several different thread sizes, even within one model range. You would expect manufacturing would be easier if there's only one size throughout the entire range, especially seeing that they had the same threads for 70 years when they were still B&H!

I'm interested to see your solution for the baritone HBC, although there should be no problem for the old New Standard/Imperials, seeing as the tubing wraps in a way that leaves space underneath the 3rd valve.

[dsurkin]

[snip]
There's no surprise of course that most Chinese manufacturers like Jinbao copied the Bauerfeind valve group dimensions for Euphoniums and other brass instruments, as evidenced through our thread measuring of their instruments. [snip]

Does that mean you have one that will fit my Mack Brass euphonium (made by JinBao)?

[Liuto]

I bought one for my Thomann JinBao today after Chris confirmed the thread size. I measured 28,85 (or was it 27,85), which probably translates to 29 mm and a 0,8 mm pitch.

[Chris Waters]

Thanks for your HBC order and it'll be in the post today. Will forward the Post Office Tracking Number by e-mail.

All the blighty best,

HBC

[Chris Waters]

It will indeed!

[Chris Waters]

That's "Thread" as in reply, not "Thread" as in HBC!!!

[Liuto]

I measured 28,85 (or was it 27,85)

I measured again. It was 27,85 with 0,8 mm pitch.

I wonder what this thread is called. The only reference chart I found was on ferreestoolsinc.com, but I don't understand their coding. The diameter is in 1/64", which would translate to 71/64" or 72/64". But I don't understand their pitch unit, maybe mils (I mean 1/1000"), but none of the example thread sizes are remotely similar to what I calculate.

Another fine example of the usual imperial units confusion.

Edit: I believe I now understand what they mean. For example, a 3664 thread is a 1“ thread with 36 tpi pitch.
Mine would be 32 tpi = .79375 mm pitch
Diameter is 27,85 = 70.137/64“, probably a 3271 or 3272 thread.

[TheJH]

After having band practice with the HBC installed on my B&H Sovereign yesterday evening, I can tell that there's definitely a big effect on how it plays.
For me, the upper register was much more stable. I had to put in less effort to keep my high concert F and G centered with the alternate fingerings I use (1+2 and 3 respectively), and I feel like my sound projected a bit better.
The drawbacks are a slight loss in response in the lower register at pp and some flexibility, but that's nothing some more practice cannot fix.
So overall, I'm pretty satisfied so far.

[MikeS]

Sorry to ask this, but how long did it take for you folk in the States to get your caps? I placed an order back in July and am still waiting. I have made inquiries on the contact page of their web site and left a couple PM’s here for Chris but received no response. Dave, if this post is out of bounds I apologize and will understand if you delete it. I am just trying to figure out if a close to two month wait is normal.

[Wendy Willson]

Sorry to ask this, but how long did it take for you folk in the States to get your caps? I placed an order back in July and am still waiting. I have made inquiries on the contact page of their web site and left a couple PM’s here for Chris but received no response. Dave, if this post is out of bounds I apologize and will understand if you delete it. I am just trying to figure out if a close to two month wait is normal.

I had the same issue. Lost in shipping... US Mail is not particularly reliable currently! I contacted Chris at HBC and he sent out another one immediately and I had it in about 2 weeks. HBC is a great group to deal with.

[ChristianeSparkle]

Sorry to ask this, but how long did it take for you folk in the States to get your caps? I placed an order back in July and am still waiting. I have made inquiries on the contact page of their web site and left a couple PM’s here for Chris but received no response. Dave, if this post is out of bounds I apologize and will understand if you delete it. I am just trying to figure out if a close to two month wait is normal.

Try reaching out to him on Facebook too! Haven't tried pm-ing him here, but he was responsive on Facebook! Hope your issue gets sorted out soon, 2 months is definitely too long!!

[Shawn]

Following on, did everybody get tracking numbers? I haven't.
Just wondering if that was standard.
No big deal if it isn't.

[Chris Waters]

Hello Everyone and sincere apologies to those valued customers whose HBCs seemed to take for ever to arrive. We've shipped 152 to the USA since 4th July but even one late arrival is one too many. Because there have been a few issues of lost in the post and extended delivery times, we now send every HBC via the Post Office with a Tracking Number and e-mail everyone with their Tracking Number. To the USA the shipping cost is £12.70 but given that a Tracking Number provides detailed communication and reassurance that "It's on its way across the pond", we're happy not to increase the shipping cost and leave it at £6.95 and just just absorb the difference in price this end for the sake of good service; an important part of our little business.

[Chris Waters]

Thank you; we do try our best! Hope your HBC is performing well. All the best, Chris