John Packer Valves

[Jherrera9415]

I have a simple question on My valves. They have been bouncy and the horn is brand new. I bought the new Steven mead springs because I thought it would make the bounce stop, but it stayed almost about the same. Did see a little progress. Any tips on what could be happening?

[leisesturm]

Hmmm. "Bouncy"? I have a new JP horn as well. I haven't noticed anything particular about the valves. To me they just seem about what valves should feel like. Full disclosure, this is my first ever piston valve instrument. Still, what I feel at the keytops doesn't strike me as noteworthy one way or another. And if you replaced the springs with SM springs (lite or regular?) and that has not fixed your issue. Well ... I don't know, it seems to support a thinking that maybe the valves are fine. What instrument are you coming to the JP from?

[Jherrera9415]

I have the John Packer 374 Sterling.
I used the Steven mead Original

[ChristianeSparkle]

I too am curious with what "bouncy" means. Could you make a video of the issue?

I would say that, that the original Mead springs were a bit too strong on the JP274 that I had. I settled with the Mead springs light. Not sure how different is the valve cluster between the 374 and 274.

[davewerden]

Did you buy your horn new? If not, it's possible the pad on top of the piston is no longer doing its job. Bounce is controlled by the density/etc. of the top pad in combination with the springs. In addition, valves that are sluggish will not bounce as much because they are not moving as fast on the way up and do not move as easily on rebound.

I imagine you are aware that most valves bounce. The goal is to make the amount of bounce so little that it is not noticed and does not interfere with your playing. Strong springs help minimize bounce. It's hard to imagine that the original Mead Springs would not do the trick, so I'm fishing for reasons to explain why your valves are bouncing

[Jherrera9415]

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0wt5...8N6RCnA#Laredo

This is a video of my valves with the springs.
Horn is brand new and the valves are very smooth.

[ChristianeSparkle]

I just saw your visitor's message, but seems like you got it uploaded!

Okay, I see now what you mean and that definitely looks a bit off, it's even bouncing when going down! I am definitely at a loss with that!

[leisesturm]

OMG. If this was April I would say the o.p. is having us on. That is truly bizarre. Just saying, the JP274 is $1K cheaper and doesn't have this problem :-) All the valves do this? They did this right out of the box? What brand of oil? If different from the 'Ultra Pure' synthetic supplied ... maybe an adverse interaction? When I depress the valve button I can feel the spring pushing back at all times. Is this sensation of the spring following the piston at all times present in the affected valves? The springs in my horn were greased at the factory. Chances are the SM springs have not been greased? Try that? Are the OEM springs and the new springs the same length? Just some ideas but this looks like the dealer needs to get involved, it maybe something they have seen before and are able to solve without the horn needing to be shipped again.

[John Morgan]

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0wt5...8N6RCnA#Laredo

This is a video of my valves with the springs.
Horn is brand new and the valves are very smooth.

That, my friend, gives new meaning to the term "valve bounce"! That is valve bounce followed by re-bounce followed by bounce-again. Something is very, very off with that. I can only imagine a spring that is very, very light and perhaps shorter than it should be. Is the video while using the SM springs? I would most definitely contact JP and seek advice. Maybe JP put trumpet springs in there? If it is doing it with the SM springs, then that is really amazing (the not good type of amazing). I would think this can be resolved (maybe easily), but right now, your horn's valve action is unacceptable. Contact the dealer/manufacturer. Let us know the outcome, this is curious.

Welcome to the forum, by the way!!

[58mark]

yeah, that is weird. I agree, contact the dealer and send them that video. I'm wondering if they changed the felt/cork under the valve cap to something new

[ChristianeSparkle]

How new is the horn? Have you cleaned the valve and the cluster thoroughly after the horn arrived? Also what valve oil are you using?

I feel that I've seen this issue before (mere deja vu?), but I'm try to recall when it was and what was done to resolve it.

[Jherrera9415]

After a full day of trying to figure it out. I managed to change the felts and this was the outcome.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0bI4...B6sqG3A#Laredo

[davewerden]

Still waiting for the video to render, but I'm anxious to see it.

The bounce you get on the downstroke I THINK is your own doing. You finger should push the valve all the way down, and if you do that the valve can't bounce. In any case, you WANT the valve to come back up as soon as there is no finger pressure.

[leisesturm]

After a full day of trying to figure it out. I managed to change the felts and this was the outcome.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0bI4...B6sqG3A#Laredo

That doesn't really look any different from before. I didn't think it had anything to do with the felts anyway. To me it looks like the springs are too weak, just like another poster wondered. This is why I asked if the original Packer springs were doing this or if it was when the change to SM springs was made. IF the SM springs are for Baritone or Tenor Horn instead of Euphonium this could possibly result in the springs being too weak or too short. But really, bottom line, this is a brand new horn and you are doing way too much on your end that could possibly void any warranty protection you enjoy for all that money spent. Contact your dealer pronto and let them sort things out for you?

[58mark]

I think that looks a lot better