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Thread: Possible to tune on a concert A?

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Ploppas View Post
    Thank you for all the good responses. A442 is normal in Swedish concert bands, to give that brighter sound. Not the best for my euphonium, but that's how it is.

    Thank you Dave for your insights. This JP probably acts like your Besson. I changed mouthpiece to a Schilke 51D and managed to lip bend it. I noticed it was easier to get it in tune while playing a scale upwards. Downwards or sustained, I needed to go with 1+3. I'll probably have to try it in band once again to see if I can manage it with others as well.

    And I agree about tuning on the second valve. This was merely a suggestion on what tone to aim for while tuning the second valve. Others have suggested to tune the valve after Concert E (on the staff) or somewhere in between. I was only curious if you should be able to tune a Concert A on the second valve or if the horn is defect. I noticed someone else had a similar issue with the JP274 in another thread on the forum. And franz mentioned shortening the 2nd valve (or all valves) to help in intonation. That could be an alternative also. But I'm more hopeful now when I've actually hit the A on the tuner once in a while.
    Do update us on how it goes! What was the initial mouthpiece you used? I recall I had slightly different results when using DW AL5 and the K&G 4 when it comes to intonation on the JP274.
    "Never over complicate things. Accept "bad" days. Always enjoy yourself when playing, love the sound we can make on our instruments (because that's why we all started playing the Euph)"

    Euph: Yamaha 642II Neo - 千歌音
    Mouthpiece: K&G 4D, Denis Wick 5AL

    https://soundcloud.com/ashsparkle_chika
    https://www.youtube.com/user/AshTSparkle/

  2. That was an excellent graph, Dave. I'll probably end up studying that one quite intensely, while documenting my horn's sweet and sour spots.

    I used the mouthpiece that was included. It was a good mouthpiece for the low register, where my 51D continues to fail me. If I'm on a tubaish part, I'll probably end up using that one. It had a good intonation in the compensated register.

  3. #13
    I just got my 274 out, oiled it up and played it. The A os not more than 7-10 flatter than the Bb, which is very normal on any euphonium, and better than most. I can't imagine why it would be so flat for you. Are other 2nd valve notes flat? Is the Bb flat a half step higher?

  4. Great to hear. Yes, E and lower A are both flat. There was another person that had a similar issue where it was flatter with 20-30 cents. I think I'm at that range as well. My 1+2 is a bit low as well, but is therefore more in tune on G. D tends to be a little flat as well. The Bb is in tune, tuned with the main tubing.

  5. #15
    well if there aren't any notes that use the 2nd valve that are sharp, I guess one option is to shorten the 2nd valve slide a touch. (if you like everything else about the instrument) That would be really weird, because slides don't get randomly longer on the assembly line.

  6. So when I unpacked my Packer (swidt?) and oiled it up and started fooling around, I happened to have a tuner handy. As I said in another thread I found it very easy to nail the smiley faces on every note. Only later did it occur to me that the main slide and all the tuning slides were in as far as they could go. I worried that if the fully slammed horn was in good tune at A440 that that wouldn't leave me anywhere to go if I had to play with a sharp accompaniment instrument. The next day I pulled the main slide out a full inch and all the tuning slides out a little more than 1/4". The 2nd slide doesn't have even 1/4" worth of extension. I pulled the 2nd slide about 1/8". Nailed the smiley's on every note just the same!

    My Horn duet partner when we used to play Horn together had the same ability. We never tuned. We just showed up to rehearsal and played perfectly in tune with one another. My Horn was built in A445 and the main slide had to be all the way in for it to fit in the case. I knew how far to pull it out for A440 but there were those rehearsals where I would forget and it was only AFTER practice when I was putting the horn away that I realized I had been playing all evening on a very sharp horn. Trombone players are used to intonation coming from the slide. The straight bore of Trombones and Trumpets (and Baritone Horns) doesn't lend itself to 'lipping' as much as the conical bore brasses. When I play a 2nd slide note after an open note on the Packer it does 'sound' a bit flat. But I have a sharp ear. I have perfect pitch, but when playing intervals I can be influenced by the leading of the harmony and it tends to usually lead me sharp. The o.p. may just be a flat kind of player on leading tones.

    The 2nd slide on the Packer is very short as is. I don't really see any way to make it shorter still! If that really is the only thing wrong with it, I for one would want to figure out how to work with it. Especially when, as the previous poster noted, it is highly unlikely that an individual or low number of JP274's somehow got longer 2nd slides than the majority of the production run. I seriously suggest the o.p. drop their tuner from a very great height onto a hard surface and just enjoy making music with their bandmates with their new JP274.

    Edit: It also ocurrs to me that a good tuner has different 'windows' of tuning accuracy. I use the setting for 'wind instruments' with my tuner. If I use the setting for keyboard instruments. I would probably be unhappy with the results! On the wind instrument setting I can see the tuning bouncing around 7, 10, maybe more percent. All still within the parameters of an 'in tune note' for a wind instrument. Voice setting is even more forgiving. Maybe instead of destroying their tuner the o.p. should make sure it is set appropriately for the kind of instrument they are playing.
    Last edited by leisesturm; 07-31-2020 at 11:24 AM.
    John Packer JP274 MKII S

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