Help with ID

[Bill O']

Hi All,
I am not sure if I can post more than 1 image per post...I'm gonna try so that this question is all in one post.

1st....is this a baritone horn....it has about 9ft of tubing and is pitched in Bb.

2nd...according to what I see on the Conn Loyalist site, a baritone with 3 top valves, and bell up is a Model 64I.....the bell looks narrower on my horn and does not look like the 64I pictured there. I am confused after looking at hundreds of images.

This horn is about 20 inches long and the bell is 8.25 inches across.

Made in 1942.

Thanks for your help! I'm new at horn IDs !
Bill

[Richard III]

The model should be on the lead pipe.

[Richard III]

Check this one.

https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn...1913image.html

[bbocaner]

Bb tenor horn. Essentially the same instrument that would be called a baritone if it were made by Boosey & Hawkes. Rare in american bands by the 1940s, but not unheard of.

My recollection is that these got an "F" letter in the model rather than the "I" you'd see on baritone/euphonium.

[Bill O']

Thanks! This is helpful. Thr pic by Richard III shows an instrument that is more conical than mine and the amount of bell above the leadpipe is much greater. Different bells different coils different squiggly bits. ?.... makes you crazy! LOL! I'll look at the leadpipe, I may have missed something.

[Bill O']

Nothing on the leadpipe.

[Richard III]

Lot's to look at here:

https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/ConnLooksEuph.html

[davewerden]

I'd point out that there is one other piece of confusion - the mouthpiece receiver. On your horn it looks about right to accept a trumpet shank (although a trumpet mouthpiece would not have been used for this horn). There was a special mouthpiece made with a small baritone/euphonium cup and a trumpet-size shank. A tenor-trombone size mouthpiece fits in about 1/4 or 3/8", which it what I think I see in the photo.

I had a horn very similar to yours until I gave it away to a church that needed one. The term "tenor horn" in the American context is probably right, and it would be kinda like a slightly smaller version of the British-style baritone horn. It could probably be used in settings where a baritone would be appropriate.

[Bill O']

Please excuse my ignorance....i made a discovery this morning....
Turns out that when comparing my Bb cornet to this horn,

I was playing Do on the cornet......and So on the horn....both notes Bb....i just thought the horn was in Bb....wrong...

That puts this horn in Eb ....

It was a DUH moment for me....in theory, this is an alto/tenor horn depending upon your point of view.

Have Fun,
Bill

[daruby]

This is an alto horn in the American parlance. If it were British, it would be called a tenor horn. The date would make this a Conn 16C. After WW2, the Conn Alto horns were mostly combo Eb/F so that they could play older Eb parts and French Horn parts w/o transposition.

The front valve/bell front Conn 22C alto horn my older brother used in the early 60s for marching band came with a french horn mouthpiece adapter which he used with the shorter F tuning slide.

Doug

[bbocaner]

Yep, hard to tell the length with just looking at the photos, especially where the valve slides go both up and down. But Doug is right, alto horn. It looks like a 2C to me, but if they had transitioned to new models by the 1940s then it could be 18C.

[daruby]

Barry,

The 2C has its tuning slide in the lead pipe and the 18C has front action valves, which is why I called 16C for a post 1938 top action horn. The pictured horn has a lead pipe directly into the valve block and top action valves. Aside from the lead pipe, however, the wrap looks like a 2C.

Doug

[bbocaner]

I have an earlier catalog here which shows a 2C without a loop in the leadpipe, but you're right about 16C vs 18C, I was looking at the catalog (with no photos) backwards.

[Bill O']

Great Info!! Thank you!

[Bill O']

So many variables...it seems Conn had a new idea every few years....I've heard British friends call them Squigly bits....Conn seems to change the squiggly bits alot!