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Thread: Brass Bands for the uninformed

  1. #1

    Brass Bands for the uninformed

    Hope I'm placing this in the right place. What are the differences in a tenor horn vs a baritone horn? Would like to know the main differences. I know that it is a smaller bore instrument. Thanks.

    Listening to Sheona White who is tremendous. Heard her playing a duet with Misa Mead and some of her videos on YouTube. What beautiful playing!

    Loved this arrangement of Ave Maria.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSwlDH27NsQ
    Last edited by Davidus1; 07-19-2020 at 06:07 PM. Reason: typo
    John 3:16

    Mack Brass Euphonium
    Conn Victor 5H Trombone
    Yamaha 354 Trombone
    Mack Brass 200S BBb Tuba

  2. #2
    This is very confusing for sure. In my understanding, the instrument I own (my little one) I call a baritone horn, or a British-style baritone. However, I think in early U.S. band tradition they had an instrument roughly the same size/key called a tenor horn. That is a bit confusing to vocalists, because tenor and baritone are different ranges. (This is the same tradition in which we called the smaller, Eb instrument an alto horn.)

    But in England they use tenor horn more like the vocal tradition. It is the Eb instrument. Baritone is the Bb instrument (as is euphonium).
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by davewerden View Post
    This is very confusing for sure. In my understanding, the instrument I own (my little one) I call a baritone horn, or a British-style baritone. However, I think in early U.S. band tradition they had an instrument roughly the same size/key called a tenor horn. That is a bit confusing to vocalists, because tenor and baritone are different ranges. (This is the same tradition in which we called the smaller, Eb instrument an alto horn.)

    But in England they use tenor horn more like the vocal tradition. It is the Eb instrument. Baritone is the Bb instrument (as is euphonium).
    I see the bore size listed around .460 or so on some of the instruments. Curious if baritone players cross over to Tenor horn. The mouthpiece looks significantly smaller so maybe Flugel players cross over? Thanks for the reply.
    John 3:16

    Mack Brass Euphonium
    Conn Victor 5H Trombone
    Yamaha 354 Trombone
    Mack Brass 200S BBb Tuba

  4. #4
    In keeping with the title of this thread, let me add that brass band tradition includes players easily switching instruments if need arises. Often it is done if a high player (like the Eb soprano cornet) player can't take the high range and moves to a lower instrument. With the exception of the bass trombone part, ALL other parts are in transposed treble clef. So you could pick up a tenor horn and the tenor horn music and play just as you had on Bb cornet, soprano cornet, flugel, baritone, euphonium, Eb tuba, or BBb tuba. You just have to get your chops used to the new mouthpiece. That makes for a practical ensemble.

    The tenor horn mouthpiece is not shaped like a French horn mouthpiece, but is shaped more like a cornet or baritone mouthpiece and sized in between those 2.
    Last edited by davewerden; 07-19-2020 at 06:40 PM.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by davewerden View Post
    In keeping with the title of this thread, let me add that brass band tradition includes players easily switching instruments if need arises. Often it is done if a high player (like the Eb soprano cornet) player can't take the high range and moves to a lower instrument. With the exception of the bass trombone part, ALL other parts are in transposed treble clef. So you could pick up a tenor horn and the tenor horn music and play just as you had on Bb cornet, soprano cornet, flugel, baritone, euphonium, Eb tuba, or BBb tuba. You just have to get your chops used to the new mouthpiece. That makes for a practical ensemble.

    The tenor horn mouthpiece is not shaped like a French horn mouthpiece, but is shaped more like a cornet or baritone mouthpiece and sized in between those 2.
    Thanks! I didn't know that the BBb Tuba parts were in treble as well. Interesting! Yet another reason to practice treble clef. I wish we had brass bands here in the community. I know the NABBA does a few bands but wish there were more.
    John 3:16

    Mack Brass Euphonium
    Conn Victor 5H Trombone
    Yamaha 354 Trombone
    Mack Brass 200S BBb Tuba

  6. I tried to find a recording of Mike Cavanaugh on YouTube of Ave Maria. Mike is a recent RNCM graduate under Steven Mead and Dave Thornton, former Brighouse & Rastrick 1st baritone, and just recently appointed to Black Dyke to replace Katrina Marzella. He just recorded Gounod's Ave Maria accompanied by the great Bramwell Tovey on piano. He is just stunning. This should provide a perfect comparison with his former B&R bandmate Sheona White playing the same piece on tenor horn. These two recordings also provides a terrific comparison of each instrument played in its most lyric tessitura by premier young artists.

    Right now, this recording is only available on Facebook here: https://www.facebook.com/mike.cavana...on=friends_tab

    Doug
    Last edited by daruby; 07-19-2020 at 09:57 PM.
    Sterling Virtuoso 1065HGS & Adams E3 Prototype 0.70 Top Sprung valves
    Sterling Virtuoso 1050HGS baritone
    New England Brass Band
    Winchendon Winds/Townsend Military Band

  7. #7
    Wow, both of them, Sheona and Mike, are truly outstanding. What glorious sounds they make.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Wessex TE-360 Bombino Eb Tuba
    Rapid City New Horizons & Municipal Bands (Euphonium)
    Black Hills Symphony Orchestra (Bass Trombone), Powder River Symphony, Gillette, WY (Tenor Trombone)
    Black Hills Brass Quintet (Tuba)

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by daruby View Post
    I tried to find a recording of Mike Cavanaugh on YouTube of Ave Maria. Mike is a recent RNCM graduate under Steven Mead and Dave Thornton, former Brighouse & Rastrick 1st baritone, and just recently appointed to Black Dyke to replace Katrina Marzella. He just recorded Gounod's Ave Maria accompanied by the great Bramwell Tovey on piano. He is just stunning. This should provide a perfect comparison with his former B&R bandmate Sheona White playing the same piece on tenor horn. These two recordings also provides a terrific comparison of each instrument played in its most lyric tessitura by premier young artists.

    Right now, this recording is only available on Facebook here: https://www.facebook.com/mike.cavana...on=friends_tab

    Doug
    Hey, thanks for sharing the link. Great stuff!
    John 3:16

    Mack Brass Euphonium
    Conn Victor 5H Trombone
    Yamaha 354 Trombone
    Mack Brass 200S BBb Tuba

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Davidus1 View Post
    I see the bore size listed around .460 or so on some of the instruments. Curious if baritone players cross over to Tenor horn. The mouthpiece looks significantly smaller so maybe Flugel players cross over? Thanks for the reply.
    There are examples of good players going to (brass band tenor) horn from both above and below. But, as you suspect, it's a more natural transition from/to above than below due to the mouthpiece width. I wonder if it is a significant part of the puzzle as to why tenor horn mouthpieces are not wider than they are that French horn mouthpieces are also in the trumpet/cornet width bracket.
    Last edited by MoominDave; 07-20-2020 at 03:20 AM.

  10. If anybody is looking to double/multiple on an instrument in a new key, I wholly recommend the Eb Tenor (Alto, whatever you choose to call it) Horn. They are 100% fun.

    This is my Tenorhorn Summer as I wait for my Wessex Euph. I found a lightly used Besson Sov. for US $1500 and it's great. Lovely intonation and response. Mouthpiece smaller but all the gut instincts from playing Euph/Bar/etc. transfer over and the right approach can bring out much of the warmth that we love in the Euph. It's portable by our standards. Aside from serious moments, the natural range is better for (even socially-distant) sing-alongs. As mentioned, the music comes pre-transposed, so the amount of effort you want to put into "thinking in Eb" is up to you.

    If you're even remotely tempted to pick one of these up, you won't regret doing it.

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