Brass Bands for the uninformed

[Davidus1]

Hope I'm placing this in the right place. What are the differences in a tenor horn vs a baritone horn? Would like to know the main differences. I know that it is a smaller bore instrument. Thanks.

Listening to Sheona White who is tremendous. Heard her playing a duet with Misa Mead and some of her videos on YouTube. What beautiful playing!

Loved this arrangement of Ave Maria.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSwlDH27NsQ

[davewerden]

This is very confusing for sure. In my understanding, the instrument I own (my little one) I call a baritone horn, or a British-style baritone. However, I think in early U.S. band tradition they had an instrument roughly the same size/key called a tenor horn. That is a bit confusing to vocalists, because tenor and baritone are different ranges. (This is the same tradition in which we called the smaller, Eb instrument an alto horn.)

But in England they use tenor horn more like the vocal tradition. It is the Eb instrument. Baritone is the Bb instrument (as is euphonium).

[Davidus1]

This is very confusing for sure. In my understanding, the instrument I own (my little one) I call a baritone horn, or a British-style baritone. However, I think in early U.S. band tradition they had an instrument roughly the same size/key called a tenor horn. That is a bit confusing to vocalists, because tenor and baritone are different ranges. (This is the same tradition in which we called the smaller, Eb instrument an alto horn.)

But in England they use tenor horn more like the vocal tradition. It is the Eb instrument. Baritone is the Bb instrument (as is euphonium).

I see the bore size listed around .460 or so on some of the instruments. Curious if baritone players cross over to Tenor horn. The mouthpiece looks significantly smaller so maybe Flugel players cross over? Thanks for the reply.

[davewerden]

In keeping with the title of this thread, let me add that brass band tradition includes players easily switching instruments if need arises. Often it is done if a high player (like the Eb soprano cornet) player can't take the high range and moves to a lower instrument. With the exception of the bass trombone part, ALL other parts are in transposed treble clef. So you could pick up a tenor horn and the tenor horn music and play just as you had on Bb cornet, soprano cornet, flugel, baritone, euphonium, Eb tuba, or BBb tuba. You just have to get your chops used to the new mouthpiece. That makes for a practical ensemble.

The tenor horn mouthpiece is not shaped like a French horn mouthpiece, but is shaped more like a cornet or baritone mouthpiece and sized in between those 2.

[Davidus1]

In keeping with the title of this thread, let me add that brass band tradition includes players easily switching instruments if need arises. Often it is done if a high player (like the Eb soprano cornet) player can't take the high range and moves to a lower instrument. With the exception of the bass trombone part, ALL other parts are in transposed treble clef. So you could pick up a tenor horn and the tenor horn music and play just as you had on Bb cornet, soprano cornet, flugel, baritone, euphonium, Eb tuba, or BBb tuba. You just have to get your chops used to the new mouthpiece. That makes for a practical ensemble.

The tenor horn mouthpiece is not shaped like a French horn mouthpiece, but is shaped more like a cornet or baritone mouthpiece and sized in between those 2.

Thanks! I didn't know that the BBb Tuba parts were in treble as well. Interesting! Yet another reason to practice treble clef. I wish we had brass bands here in the community. I know the NABBA does a few bands but wish there were more.

[daruby]

I tried to find a recording of Mike Cavanaugh on YouTube of Ave Maria. Mike is a recent RNCM graduate under Steven Mead and Dave Thornton, former Brighouse & Rastrick 1st baritone, and just recently appointed to Black Dyke to replace Katrina Marzella. He just recorded Gounod's Ave Maria accompanied by the great Bramwell Tovey on piano. He is just stunning. This should provide a perfect comparison with his former B&R bandmate Sheona White playing the same piece on tenor horn. These two recordings also provides a terrific comparison of each instrument played in its most lyric tessitura by premier young artists.

Right now, this recording is only available on Facebook here: https://www.facebook.com/mike.cavana...on=friends_tab

Doug

[John Morgan]

Wow, both of them, Sheona and Mike, are truly outstanding. What glorious sounds they make.

[Davidus1]

I tried to find a recording of Mike Cavanaugh on YouTube of Ave Maria. Mike is a recent RNCM graduate under Steven Mead and Dave Thornton, former Brighouse & Rastrick 1st baritone, and just recently appointed to Black Dyke to replace Katrina Marzella. He just recorded Gounod's Ave Maria accompanied by the great Bramwell Tovey on piano. He is just stunning. This should provide a perfect comparison with his former B&R bandmate Sheona White playing the same piece on tenor horn. These two recordings also provides a terrific comparison of each instrument played in its most lyric tessitura by premier young artists.

Right now, this recording is only available on Facebook here: https://www.facebook.com/mike.cavana...on=friends_tab

Doug

Hey, thanks for sharing the link. Great stuff!

[MoominDave]

I see the bore size listed around .460 or so on some of the instruments. Curious if baritone players cross over to Tenor horn. The mouthpiece looks significantly smaller so maybe Flugel players cross over? Thanks for the reply.

There are examples of good players going to (brass band tenor) horn from both above and below. But, as you suspect, it's a more natural transition from/to above than below due to the mouthpiece width. I wonder if it is a significant part of the puzzle as to why tenor horn mouthpieces are not wider than they are that French horn mouthpieces are also in the trumpet/cornet width bracket.

[Shawn]

If anybody is looking to double/multiple on an instrument in a new key, I wholly recommend the Eb Tenor (Alto, whatever you choose to call it) Horn. They are 100% fun.

This is my Tenorhorn Summer as I wait for my Wessex Euph. I found a lightly used Besson Sov. for US $1500 and it's great. Lovely intonation and response. Mouthpiece smaller but all the gut instincts from playing Euph/Bar/etc. transfer over and the right approach can bring out much of the warmth that we love in the Euph. It's portable by our standards. Aside from serious moments, the natural range is better for (even socially-distant) sing-alongs. As mentioned, the music comes pre-transposed, so the amount of effort you want to put into "thinking in Eb" is up to you.

If you're even remotely tempted to pick one of these up, you won't regret doing it.

[daruby]

Ok...hot off the presses! Just posted today. A beautiful duet between Gary Perrin (flugelhorn) and Siobhan Bates (tenor horn) of The Prayer. Both are recent grads from Huddersfield Univ. (in Yorkshire). Siobhan is the solo tenor horn player in Black Dyke. This is an interesting combination since Siobhan is playing the top of the duet in her upper tessitura and Gary is playing the flugelhorn in his mid range. Just note that in the brass band, the "horn section" includes the flugelhorn, solo, 1st, and 2nd tenor horns. The euphoniums are "cellos" and tenor soloists, whilst the baritones are "tweeners" used in a "horn" role, balancing euphs, trombones, and sometimes the 1st baritone does octaves with the solo cornets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnm9...YXHsGIrvDZYURw

[bbocaner]

I have found that, in general, euphonium/baritone players who double on Eb tenor horn sound better than cornet/trumpet players who double on Eb tenor horn. Something about the embouchure or airflow...

[Davidus1]

Ok...hot off the presses! Just posted today. A beautiful duet between Gary Perrin (flugelhorn) and Siobhan Bates (tenor horn) of The Prayer. Both are recent grads from Huddersfield Univ. (in Yorkshire). Siobhan is the solo tenor horn player in Black Dyke. This is an interesting combination since Siobhan is playing the top of the duet in her upper tessitura and Gary is playing the flugelhorn in his mid range. Just note that in the brass band, the "horn section" includes the flugelhorn, solo, 1st, and 2nd tenor horns. The euphoniums are "cellos" and tenor soloists, whilst the baritones are "tweeners" used in a "horn" role, balancing euphs, trombones, and sometimes the 1st baritone does octaves with the solo cornets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnm9...YXHsGIrvDZYURw

Thank you! Very much like the tune but also the explanation on voicings of the instruments. I'm an experienced player but no brass band experience to speak of. I have several CDs but would like to find a source for others. Amazon and eBay have Black Dyke and Philip Jones CDs but not much from Cory, Flowers, Radstrick, etc. Thank you for sharing.

[daruby]

Thank you! Very much like the tune but also the explanation on voicings of the instruments. I'm an experienced player but no brass band experience to speak of. I have several CDs but would like to find a source for others. Amazon and eBay have Black Dyke and Philip Jones CDs but not much from Cory, Flowers, Radstrick, etc. Thank you for sharing.

I would be happy to provide a lifetime supply of New England Brass Band CDs for just $10/each! I am the former treasurer and the current librarian and keep track of all the music and Inventory CDs. We currently have 6 different CDs in stock, including my favorite: Music of New England, recorded in 2017. PM me if you have an interest.

Doug

[daruby]

Barry,

The NEBB's solo tenor, Steven Heldt, is a fine trumpet/cornet player. However, in 2018 he decided to take on tenor horn, bought a Wick 2 and started playing a late 1970s Sovereign 950 owned by the band. He also spent a summer listening to Sheona White, Owen Farr, and a few other tenor horn players. In his first full year on the horn, he won the top "Tenor Horn Technical" medal at the 2019 NABBA. He has mastered the beautiful sound and matched it with his cornet inspired technical skills. We are pleased to have him in the band.

Doug