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Thread: Heavy bottom caps

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Hidden Valley, AZ
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    Heavy bottom caps

    Any experience with these from you all?

    Snake oil? Really did the trick?

    Don't waste your time? Amazing?

    I'm really curious as to just how they make a euph play easier.

    DG
    1966 Besson 181 highly modified New Standard
    1918 Hawkes & Son euph 3&1 original
    1915 York Bb tenorhorn original

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
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    A heavy 4th valve cap can help on some euphs with response and/or slotting. It did on my Yamaha 641 but didn't help on my M5050.

    YMMV
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton Brandon Jones sig mpc
    YEP-641S (on long-term loan to grandson)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    Russian Christmas Music (Alfred Reed)
    El Cumbanchero (Rafael Hernández) cell phone video

  3. #3
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    Hidden Valley, AZ
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    Speedy Rick to the rescue! Good to know.

    I guess I should've specified that for the New Standard, 967/8, or Sovereign.

    DG
    1966 Besson 181 highly modified New Standard
    1918 Hawkes & Son euph 3&1 original
    1915 York Bb tenorhorn original

  4. #4
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    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
    Posts
    3,306
    Dennis, there's a 12 year-old thread on heavy valve caps (3 pgs worth) that might help. Don't think anyone mentioned a Besson NS though. You might be able to experiment if you have an extra valve cap. On page 2 I posted about making up my own heavy 4th valve cap using a long hex socket and also adding some lead solder inside to add some weight.

    Heavy Valve Caps for Euphonium
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton Brandon Jones sig mpc
    YEP-641S (on long-term loan to grandson)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    Russian Christmas Music (Alfred Reed)
    El Cumbanchero (Rafael Hernández) cell phone video

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Hidden Valley, AZ
    Posts
    748
    Thanks, I missed that before.

    D
    1966 Besson 181 highly modified New Standard
    1918 Hawkes & Son euph 3&1 original
    1915 York Bb tenorhorn original

  6. Since 2009, I have used a heavy 4th valve cap on my Sterling, German Besson 2051 Prestige, English Besson 967 Sovereign, and Adams E3. In all cases, the cpas were made by Sterling. Paul Riggett made the Besson cap for me out of a spare Prestige cap that I sent to him. The Adams is using a Sterling Bauerfeind cap I purchased on eBay. Since my Sterling has a Bauerfeind valveset, all of the caps are interchangeable with a normal Adams, though just my 4th and not with the top-sprung 1-2-3 valves on my E3.
    Sterling Virtuoso 1065HGS & Adams E3 Prototype 0.70 Top Sprung valves
    Sterling Virtuoso 1050HGS baritone
    New England Brass Band
    Winchendon Winds/Townsend Military Band

  7. #7
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    Mar 2006
    Location
    Hidden Valley, AZ
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    OK Doug, just what do they do for you? Is it such now that you just won't work the horn(s) without them?

    D
    1966 Besson 181 highly modified New Standard
    1918 Hawkes & Son euph 3&1 original
    1915 York Bb tenorhorn original

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Hidden Valley, AZ
    Posts
    748
    Here is the guy with the free world's supply of HBC's:

    https://heavybottomcaps.co.uk/

    Appears they are made for just about every horn in a band.

    D
    1966 Besson 181 highly modified New Standard
    1918 Hawkes & Son euph 3&1 original
    1915 York Bb tenorhorn original

  9. #9
    Still looking forward to hear what people have to say about these HBC's! Those with horns that never came with a HBC's before this!
    "Never over complicate things. Accept "bad" days. Always enjoy yourself when playing, love the sound we can make on our instruments (because that's why we all started playing the Euph)"

    Euph: Yamaha 642II Neo - 千歌音
    Mouthpiece: K&G 4D, Denis Wick 5AL

    https://soundcloud.com/ashsparkle_chika
    https://www.youtube.com/user/AshTSparkle/

  10. Quote Originally Posted by highpitch View Post
    OK Doug, just what do they do for you? Is it such now that you just won't work the horn(s) without them? D
    Hi there,

    I have a heavy cap on the 4th valve of both my Sterling and my Adams. The Adams cap is, in fact, a 2nd Sterling cap I picked up since they both have the same thread. I also had a Besson heavy bottom cap fabricated for me by Paul Riggett at Sterling that I used on my 2007 Prestige and 2002 Sovereign.

    I find that the heavy cap on the 4th valve stabilizes response across the range. My Bessons tended to "pop" in the 2nd partial (low Bb and F in particular) and not respond the same way as the horn did in the rest of the range. I also have a set of heavy 1-2-3 caps for the Sterling, but found it made the horn too heavy and sound "dead" (at least to me). I used a heavy Sterling 1-2-3 cap on the 4th valve of my Adams shortly after I got it, but recently was able to procure a 2nd Sterling heavy 4th valve cap to replace it. The effect may be negligible on the E3, but it makes me feel more secure on the horn.

    My theory is that u
    nlike 1-2-3 valves that have cross bracing at top and bottom, the 4th valve can be subject to sympathetic vibrations since the lower half of the valve is unsupported by any bracing. It just kind of hangs out there. Adding weight at the end of a pendulum will tend to change the moment arm of the valve and dampen the potential for the valve to introduce its own sound into the horn. I experimented with this theory by holding the 4th valve piston so that it floated just a bit above fully depressed or below fully up. I could feel the vibration energy in my fingers. I was amazed by how strong the vibration in the piston was with certain 2nd and 1st partial notes.

    The idea of dampening unwanted sympathetic vibration at critical locations around the horn has a scientific basis, even if we apply solutions unscientifically.
    Some folks also plaster Lafreque plates at various locations on their horns to enhance sound and/or response.

    Doug
    Sterling Virtuoso 1065HGS & Adams E3 Prototype 0.70 Top Sprung valves
    Sterling Virtuoso 1050HGS baritone
    New England Brass Band
    Winchendon Winds/Townsend Military Band

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