Heavy bottom caps

[highpitch]

Any experience with these from you all?

Snake oil? Really did the trick?

Don't waste your time? Amazing?

I'm really curious as to just how they make a euph play easier.

DG

[RickF]

A heavy 4th valve cap can help on some euphs with response and/or slotting. It did on my Yamaha 641 but didn't help on my M5050.

YMMV

[highpitch]

Speedy Rick to the rescue! Good to know.

I guess I should've specified that for the New Standard, 967/8, or Sovereign.

DG

[RickF]

Dennis, there's a 12 year-old thread on heavy valve caps (3 pgs worth) that might help. Don't think anyone mentioned a Besson NS though. You might be able to experiment if you have an extra valve cap. On page 2 I posted about making up my own heavy 4th valve cap using a long hex socket and also adding some lead solder inside to add some weight.

Heavy Valve Caps for Euphonium

[highpitch]

Thanks, I missed that before.

D

[daruby]

Since 2009, I have used a heavy 4th valve cap on my Sterling, German Besson 2051 Prestige, English Besson 967 Sovereign, and Adams E3. In all cases, the cpas were made by Sterling. Paul Riggett made the Besson cap for me out of a spare Prestige cap that I sent to him. The Adams is using a Sterling Bauerfeind cap I purchased on eBay. Since my Sterling has a Bauerfeind valveset, all of the caps are interchangeable with a normal Adams, though just my 4th and not with the top-sprung 1-2-3 valves on my E3.

[highpitch]

OK Doug, just what do they do for you? Is it such now that you just won't work the horn(s) without them?

D

[highpitch]

Here is the guy with the free world's supply of HBC's:

https://heavybottomcaps.co.uk/

Appears they are made for just about every horn in a band.

D

[ChristianeSparkle]

Still looking forward to hear what people have to say about these HBC's! Those with horns that never came with a HBC's before this!

[daruby]

OK Doug, just what do they do for you? Is it such now that you just won't work the horn(s) without them? D

Hi there,

I have a heavy cap on the 4th valve of both my Sterling and my Adams. The Adams cap is, in fact, a 2nd Sterling cap I picked up since they both have the same thread. I also had a Besson heavy bottom cap fabricated for me by Paul Riggett at Sterling that I used on my 2007 Prestige and 2002 Sovereign.

I find that the heavy cap on the 4th valve stabilizes response across the range. My Bessons tended to "pop" in the 2nd partial (low Bb and F in particular) and not respond the same way as the horn did in the rest of the range. I also have a set of heavy 1-2-3 caps for the Sterling, but found it made the horn too heavy and sound "dead" (at least to me). I used a heavy Sterling 1-2-3 cap on the 4th valve of my Adams shortly after I got it, but recently was able to procure a 2nd Sterling heavy 4th valve cap to replace it. The effect may be negligible on the E3, but it makes me feel more secure on the horn.

My theory is that unlike 1-2-3 valves that have cross bracing at top and bottom, the 4th valve can be subject to sympathetic vibrations since the lower half of the valve is unsupported by any bracing. It just kind of hangs out there. Adding weight at the end of a pendulum will tend to change the moment arm of the valve and dampen the potential for the valve to introduce its own sound into the horn. I experimented with this theory by holding the 4th valve piston so that it floated just a bit above fully depressed or below fully up. I could feel the vibration energy in my fingers. I was amazed by how strong the vibration in the piston was with certain 2nd and 1st partial notes.

The idea of dampening unwanted sympathetic vibration at critical locations around the horn has a scientific basis, even if we apply solutions unscientifically. Some folks also plaster Lafreque plates at various locations on their horns to enhance sound and/or response.

Doug

[highpitch]

Good data, thanks Doug.

In an allied vein;

Here at the Musical Instrument Museum there is a calliope with real brass horns being played. I'm not just sure how the machine replicates chops to make it go, because it sounds a bit dull.

However, that tech could be improved and used to excite a euph at any particular pitch to see just when & where any unwanted mechanical resonance occurs. This could lead to advantageous changes in design, allowing objective empirical observations when 'held' in a playing position without relying on human 'power' to do it.

The engineer in me surfaces again...

Dennis

[Snorlax]

I ordered one from the UK last week...will share my impressions after I've had it on for a while.

[franz]

Some time ago I added weight to the lower cap of the fourth valve of my Besson Prestige using a piece of a brass bar suitably worked on the lathe and glued with epoxy resin to the standard light cap. The resulting weight was 167 gr. against 32 of the original. Subsequently I did the same with the heavy cap ( the difference between the two is extremely small, so as not to feel any appreciable difference), bringing the weight from 40 to 230 gr. I had an improvement on the low range and a strengthening of the sound on the whole range compared to the original set up, while between that of 1167 gr. and that of 230 gr. I don't notice any noticeable differences. With this additional weight and the Lefeque plates the instrument has reached the remarkable weight of 5,665 Kg.

[John Morgan]

My question is if the heavy cap does something useful screwed onto the 4th valve, why aren't euphoniums made/sold with this bit of engineering/manufacturing already in place? I suppose cost could be an answer, but it seems it would be pretty negligible if designed into the instrument. Would there then be people who bought this newly designed euphonium with the heavy cap and then decided it would be nice to have a light cap, so then the industry would be cranking out light caps to replace standard heavy caps. I know Besson does (or did) come with two sets of valve caps. One set for Mon-Wed, the other for Thur-Sat, and no caps for Sunday.

Maybe I just don't get it.

[daruby]

My question is if the heavy cap does something useful screwed onto the 4th valve, why aren't euphoniums made/sold with this bit of engineering/manufacturing already in place?

Some are. The Sterling Virtuoso has shipped with the heavy bottom cap on the 4th valve for some time. Some models of Geneva and Adams also ship with heavy bottom and top caps (Adams E2, Geneva GVL Cardinal). The Besson Prestige also comes with two sets of caps. I used the heavy caps on my 2051 and found the sound just a bit more gravitas (keep in min I had the small bell 2051). Heavy caps have been available as accessories on trumpets for years.

So I would argue that variations in valve cap weight have been around for quite a while.

Doug