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Thread: Heavy bottom caps

  1. #21
    I have the same experience, Mike. AS per the photo below, the pit of the cap is much lower than the normal cap, making the spring sit lower. I've approached Chris of Heavy Bottom Caps and his suggestion was to stretch out the spring until I get the tension I want. But that is kind of odd to me?

    I had Mead spring (light) #4 on my 4th valve and it felt a bit light. On the Neo, the Yamaha spring is shorter, so that's even worse. My workaround was using normal Mead Spring #1, not the best work around but I will give it a spin and see.

    I am curious if we just got a different cap than Jim since he doesn't have the issue despite using a Neo too? The thread is definitely deeper than the normal cap and I've screwed in fully, unless I am missing something.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snorlax View Post
    Mike,
    I've heard that from Chrissie with the cap for her Neo.
    I'm not really feeling that, because the threads on the heavy cap (mine came yesterday)
    are so much deeper. I've tried it on all four of the valves on my Neo and don't notice any difference.
    In my case on the Neo, the cap LOOKS deeper but the length of the threads when fully screwed in
    creates a situation similar to the original on all four valves.
    "Never over complicate things. Accept "bad" days. Always enjoy yourself when playing, love the sound we can make on our instruments (because that's why we all started playing the Euph)"

    Euph: Yamaha 642II Neo - 千歌音
    Mouthpiece: K&G 4D, Denis Wick 5AL

    https://soundcloud.com/ashsparkle_chika
    https://www.youtube.com/user/AshTSparkle/

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianeSparkle View Post
    I have the same experience, Mike. AS per the photo below, the pit of the cap is much lower than the normal cap, making the spring sit lower. I've approached Chris of Heavy Bottom Caps and his suggestion was to stretch out the spring until I get the tension I want. But that is kind of odd to me?

    I had Mead spring (light) #4 on my 4th valve and it felt a bit light. On the Neo, the Yamaha spring is shorter, so that's even worse. My workaround was using normal Mead Spring #1, not the best work around but I will give it a spin and see.

    I am curious if we just got a different cap than Jim since he doesn't have the issue despite using a Neo too? The thread is definitely deeper than the normal cap and I've screwed in fully, unless I am missing something.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	photo_2020-07-18_01-14-36.jpg 
Views:	14 
Size:	111.8 KB 
ID:	7823
    This is the response I got from Chris:

    Dear Michael,

    Thank you for your e-mail.


    We designed the HBC inner thread depth with an extra 8mm to give flexibility regarding the spring strength individual players like, enabling the spring to to extended to suit.


    It's an extra option and all you need to do is pull the spring gently holding each end until you find the spring strength that suits you.

    Hope this helps.


    Best regards,
    Chris


    _______

    This really doesn't seem like a good idea. Why not just make the cap fit like the normal cap? Most players are going to be using springs that they like. Why would you want to use a different springs or stretch your existing spring just to use a heavy cap?


    Mike

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    San Diego, California
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickF View Post
    Hmm? My M5050 didn't come with heavy valve caps. I wonder if that was something that changed fairly recently. I got my M5050 about 7 or 8 years ago. That being said, I ordered a heavy 4th valve cap and I found out it didn't help any. Plus it got in the way of emptying my valve trough so don't use it.
    My 5050 is such a beast in the weight category, I don't want to add ANY more weight to it. Also, I'm sure in the manufacturing process there is a point of diminishing returns in adding it to the horn as a standard, thus increasing the cost.
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by mbrooke View Post
    _______

    This really doesn't seem like a good idea. Why not just make the cap fit like the normal cap? Most players are going to be using springs that they like. Why would you want to use a different springs or stretch your existing spring just to use a heavy cap?


    Mike
    Indeed, I wonder why. Like, I wouldn't want to keep paying for another set of normal Steven mead Springs just to use it for 4th valve. Definitely does not seem like a good idea at all to do this? they could probably have offered it as an option instead or something. I know people do stretch out their springs, but it shouldn't be a requirement to have it to work?
    "Never over complicate things. Accept "bad" days. Always enjoy yourself when playing, love the sound we can make on our instruments (because that's why we all started playing the Euph)"

    Euph: Yamaha 642II Neo - 千歌音
    Mouthpiece: K&G 4D, Denis Wick 5AL

    https://soundcloud.com/ashsparkle_chika
    https://www.youtube.com/user/AshTSparkle/

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    177
    Especially with how tricky it can be to get the spring length right when stretching them out. It's very easy to make a mistake and stretch them out too much and then you have a problem.

  6. #26
    I received an email from Chris:
    -------

    Dear Mike,


    Thanks for your e-mail.


    When we researched the HBC project with Euphonium players, some said they would like the option to slightly reduce the strength of the 4th spring and have the ability to adjust by either using the HBC with the 10mm extra depth as it stands, or slowly stretching the spring until the desired resistance was achieved. Of course it's not really possible to weaken the spring as it stands with a normal bottom caps so we seized the opportunity when making the HBCs to provide this option.


    If you'd prefer a bespoke 10mm spacer to fit in the bottom of the HBC we'd happily do that for you without cost.


    All the best,


    Chris
    -------------

    I've switched back and forth between Yamaha euph springs and light Mead springs. A Yamaha spring is much to short in the fourth valve with the heavy weight cap. The Mead spring works. I may get the spacer and see how that works.

    Mike

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
    Posts
    3,308
    Seems to me you could add a rubber washer (or two or three) to allow your existing spring to work without stretching it. Years ago I added a rubber washer to the bottom cap of my 4th valve... not to take up space but to quiet down the action. I went to Ace Hardware where they had drawers of different sized rubber washers with hole in its center. Pretty cheap fix.
    Rick Floyd
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    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
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  8. Ace Hardware is my favorite misc. fixit place for things like this.
    Sterling Virtuoso 1065HGS & Adams E3 Prototype 0.70 Top Sprung valves
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by RickF View Post
    Seems to me you could add a rubber washer (or two or three) to allow your existing spring to work without stretching it. Years ago I added a rubber washer to the bottom cap of my 4th valve... not to take up space but to quiet down the action. I went to Ace Hardware where they had drawers of different sized rubber washers with hole in its center. Pretty cheap fix.
    I like Rick's approach with adding a couple or three washers. I am rusty on Physics and Hooke's Law regarding springs, but once you stretch out a spring to the point of deforming it (which you have to do to make it longer), I'm not sure what you have done to the spring, i.e. making it stronger or weaker, but in any event, you have probably changed the force required to push down a valve and the resulting force required to push back the valve. Might not be a big deal, depending on how much you have to stretch out the spring, but keeping the spring as it was and adding filler gets my vote. That is, if I were to buy one of these heavy bottom caps.
    Last edited by John Morgan; 08-08-2020 at 01:17 AM.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
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  10. #30
    Thank you Rick!! That's a very good idea! Will definitely drop by Ace Hardware when I have the chance!
    "Never over complicate things. Accept "bad" days. Always enjoy yourself when playing, love the sound we can make on our instruments (because that's why we all started playing the Euph)"

    Euph: Yamaha 642II Neo - 千歌音
    Mouthpiece: K&G 4D, Denis Wick 5AL

    https://soundcloud.com/ashsparkle_chika
    https://www.youtube.com/user/AshTSparkle/

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