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Thread: Euphonium Upgrades

  1. Hello everyone,

    I had a day of testing a wonderful range of instruments and I hope in the near future that I will be able to write down my thoughts and feelings about what I tested today.

    Many Thanks,

    Micah Dominic Parsons

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Micah.Dominic.Parsons View Post
    Hello everyone,

    I had a day of testing a wonderful range of instruments and I hope in the near future that I will be able to write down my thoughts and feelings about what I tested today.

    Many Thanks,

    Micah Dominic Parsons
    Hi Micah,

    Well....... at least let us know what instruments you tested!!

    John
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Wessex TE-360 Bombino Eb Tuba
    Rapid City New Horizons & Municipal Bands (Euphonium)
    Black Hills Symphony Orchestra (Bass Trombone), Powder River Symphony, Gillette, WY (Tenor Trombone)
    Black Hills Brass Quintet (Tuba)

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Harrisonburg, VA
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by spkissane View Post
    I asked Martin about this once, and apparently the process/design would be extremely difficult and expensive for compensating valves. Something to do with the fact that there's very little material in between some of the connecting spaces in the pistons because of all the added tubing (iirc).

    He did design a 4th valve for the Willson 2900, which I bought from him and have since sold to a member of this forum, since I don't play on a 2900 anymore. I found the valve to be an improvement in several respects, especial in the low register!
    I bought that MAW valve! I really liked it for my Willson as well, it really made my 4th valve work more full with more ease. I still have that horn, but I have since moved on as well.
    Sean Breast
    DMA Euphonium Performance - James Madison University '22
    Adams Custom E3, SS Bell - Denis Wick 4AL
    Edwards T350-HB - Warburton Gail Robertson Signature
    Edwards B454-V - Greg Black 1 1/8G
    BAC Custom Shires Straight Tenor - Schilke 47C4
    ...and random others

  4. Hello everyone,

    So I tested the following instruments.

    A Gold Lacquer Besson Prestige Euphonium made in 2019.
    A Silver Plated Besson Prestige Euphonium made in 2018.
    A Silver Plated Besson Sovereign Euphonium made in 2020.
    A Silver Plated Willson 2960 TA-UK.
    A Silver Plated Willson 2900 TA.
    A Silver Plated Yamaha Custom Euphonium.

    I had a really enjoyable day and once I gather all my thoughts, I shall post a thread on this.

    Many Thanks,

    Micah Dominic Parsons

  5. Watching a talk by Steven Meade, I noted how he praised the new Besson non-compensating Euphoniums. Iíve been increasingly unhappy with my own compensating horn, a Yamaha YEP 642, because my neck was hurting from an hour of playing - the weight was wearing me down! Iím too tall to rest the instrument on my leg, and even though I use a little pillow, made for that purpose, it continued to weigh me down. I had considered one of those Danish support rods that rests on your chair, but Stephenís comments intrigued me. The little Besson is GREAT, and the 4th valve on the side still easily allows alternative fingering. Any one else for a ďstep down?Ē

  6. #26
    Another light option is the Adams, assuming you go with the standard model. Or you could try a lap pad - I'd be lost without mine!

    FYI, Adams has come out with a new 3+1 non-comp model. It is essentially a non-comp E1. I'm waiting until a satisfactory playing space opens up to test one, but I hope to find a way soon. It's named "Sonic".
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis area
    Posts
    836
    I have never been a fan of the Blaikely compensating system--it always seemed to me to be a kludge designed to solve one problem while creating a few others...I wonder why the compensating system evolved instead of a fifth-valve setup that would likely solve the one problem without having to create valves with two sets of ports and without routing air through any number of bends.
    Someone made a fifth-valve setup for a Yamaha 321 that worked well, but it was/is prohibitively expensive. I borrowed one for a few weeks and really liked it, but its owner had the temerity to ask me to return it.
    Last edited by Snorlax; 07-14-2020 at 02:55 PM.
    Jim Williams N9EJR (love 10 meters)
    Yamaha 642-II Neo, Wedge 103E, SM3.5
    Yamaha 321, Yamaha 621 Baritone
    Conn 50H trombone
    Blue P-bone
    www.soundcloud.com/jweuph

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Snorlax View Post
    I have never been a fan of the Blaikely compensating system--it always seemed to me to be a kludge designed to solve one problem while creating a few others...I wonder why the compensating system evolved instead of a fifth-valve setup that would likely solve the one problem without having to create valves with two sets of ports and without routing air through any number of bends.
    Someone made a fifth-valve setup for a Yamaha 321 that worked well, but it was/is prohibitively expensive. I borrowed one for a few weeks and really liked it, but its owner had the temerity to ask me to return it.
    As to why, this is from my page about the compensating system:

    One of the most respected of modern texts dealing with the euphonium and tuba is The Tuba Family by Clifford Bevan. He begins his discussion of the compensating system by saying, " By the 1870's it was obvious that the most satisfactory method of compensation would be completely automatic (probably the player's lack of enthusiasm for extra valves, levers and keys was striking home). In fact the first completely automatic system turned out to be the best.'' (Clifford Bevan, The Tuba Family (New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1978); p. 82)
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  9. Regarding the 5th-valve add on for the Yamaha 321, apparently they were made by Kanstul for Stauffer Brass. TheHornGuys still has the listing and description (with photos) on their website for archival purposes:

    https://www.hornguys.com/collections...-321-euphonium

    Interestingly, they note that Yamaha several decades ago (before they had started producing compensating euphs) had produced a similar 5th-valve add on.
    Willson 2900 TA-1 Euphonium - Denis Wick 4AM
    Yamaha YSL-643 Trombone - Bach 5G
    F.E. Olds Special Trombone (ca. 1941) - Faxx 7C

    Past:
    York Preference 3067 Euphonium - Denis Wick 4AL
    Benge 165F Trombone - Benge Marcellus
    Wessex BR140 Baritone - Denis Wick 6BS

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis area
    Posts
    836
    I wonder if the premise of Bevan's statement about disdain for slide-pulling and extra valves holds today?
    Points to ponder:
    *If the Blaikely compensation system is so efficient, why do so many euphoniums require a trigger?
    I've still got to think that a fifth valve would offer just as much in the low register as compensation does, PLUS offering a
    number of potentially intonation-correcting alternatives for the usual suspect notes...all without foot-long valves. A fifth valve
    could also take a larger bore, thus facilitating low-register clarity and response. Most horns now are dual-bore, anyway.

    *Tubists are certainly not averse to five or six valves these days...maybe euphoniumists might not gripe about five.

    *The euphonium is already non-ergonomic enough...would a fifth valve make it that much more non-ergonomic? There could be some reduction in weight and expense, since there would be no need for special valves and the odd tubing off the back of the valves--and parts could well be made from existing stock of valves and tubing.

    *Somewhere in my vast trivia files I have a spreadsheet, perhaps created by Dr. Young, showing RMS intonation errors for different systems. IIRC, the system with the least average expected intonation error was the three-valve compensation system. I can't recall, though, if it included a five-valve option, nor can I call the exact methodology.

    *I wonder if manufacturers keep to the same basic designs due to an orthodoxy among euphonium players?
    Last edited by Snorlax; 07-15-2020 at 11:25 AM.
    Jim Williams N9EJR (love 10 meters)
    Yamaha 642-II Neo, Wedge 103E, SM3.5
    Yamaha 321, Yamaha 621 Baritone
    Conn 50H trombone
    Blue P-bone
    www.soundcloud.com/jweuph

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