Tuba-Euphonium Doublers

[Davidus1]

Hi,

I know that there are many on this forum that double on trombone but I was curious how many double on tuba. I'm a tuba player that doubles on Euphonium and trombone but find I'm playing more Euphonium now than anything else.

Those that double on tuba, do you play BBb or Eb and why? Just curious if Eb tuba is an easier move than BBb for a Euph player wanting to double.

[euphlight]

I double on tuba when needed with my Community Band. I use the highschool Yamaha Tuba they have and use my gold plated Shilke 66. I get around tuba fine, bit of a workout with getting the air going. In a perfect would, I would own 4 valve Eb compensating tuba. Its a bit strange since graduating from university 18 years ago that I doubled on tuba a lot more then trombone. I very rarely need to double on trombone for anything thanks to some pretty good high school trombone players at both the high schools in town and at the university.

[Davidus1]

Thanks for sharing. Have you had a chance to play test any Eb tubas? Just curious since you mention it if you've had a chance to tinker on one. I think Ebs are great all purpose horns. I really like them.

I double on tuba when needed with my Community Band. I use the highschool Yamaha Tuba they have and use my gold plated Shilke 66. I get around tuba fine, bit of a workout with getting the air going. In a perfect would, I would own 4 valve Eb compensating tuba. Its a bit strange since graduating from university 18 years ago that I doubled on tuba a lot more then trombone. I very rarely need to double on trombone for anything thanks to some pretty good high school trombone players at both the high schools in town and at the university.

[John Morgan]

Although I think it should be called "quadrupler", because I play 4 instruments, I am an instrument doubler. Euphonium is my main instrument. I play tenor trombone in one orchestra. I play bass trombone in another orchestra. And I play Eb tuba in a brass quintet and other ensembles. I find the Eb tuba to be easier to switch back and forth from euphonium than a Bb tuba would be. I play a 4 piston valve compensating tuba. I think Eb is easier for me just because the Bb is a bigger blow and harder for me to get used to as quickly as I can Eb. Although if I were to play tuba in an orchestra on a regular basis, I would probably go with a Bb tuba. The Eb works nicely in small ensembles like a brass quintet.

[davewerden]

Euphonium is my main instrument. In high school I taught myself trombone, and played it in some brass ensembles in college. Then in the CG Band I played trombone in the jazz ensemble, and also with the Eastern Connecticut Symphony.

In the 1980's I had a chance to get a Sovereign Eb as a Besson artist - they sent me the horn but I had to work off the value in clinics and so on. Couldn't pass it up. Part of my motive was to improve my air/sound on euphonium. I enjoyed it! I Finally I really understood why tuba players seem to have so much fun. Later I played in a CT brass band, and after moving to MN I played in our church group and in a brass band here briefly.

I find the Eb side valve configuration makes it feel like a big euphonium, which is slightly convenient. Also, the playing characteristics are quite similar to euphonium. Techniques used to play it are nearly identical: fingers, chop operation, warm-air concept, and tonguing. It does require more air quantity if you go low, but it is pretty well proven that a given note in a given octave takes about as much wind on tuba or euphonium. I think it's a great double for a euphonium player.

Peculiar to me, perhaps, is that my brain is always thinking in Bb treble clef. So I can just read bass clef tuba music as treble clef, modifying accidentals as needed, and I had a big head start on learning. The big drawback is when I encounter wide intervals - my pitch memory comes into play and messes up my target!

[euphlight]

I played on a friends silver plated Willson 4 valve compensating Eb tuba once. I really like it. Sadly, my friend was killed in a vehicle accident around 20 years ago, really great tuba player and just a great guy. I believe his older brother, a really great tuba player who lives in Texas has it. Eb would be sufficient for what I would be playing.

For tubas, in university, I played on a Bb Miraphone. It had rotary valves. The one I played on, the mid register was a bit klutzy sounding and tricky to control. In the one semester which I play tuba in a wind ensemble, I was given a bassoon part to play which the part was all soft mid register playing on tuba and it was fairly slow. While I could play the part on tuba, I ended up playing the part on my euphonium and made my life a lot easier! The other tuba player, an amateur community player said he couldn't play the part on his Bb tuba. There's been a few times playing in a brass quintet which I grabbed my euphonium and played the tuba part as written since I didn't have access to an Eb tuba. Scherzo by John Cheetham is the best example of this. With my Community Band, the highschool has a Yamaha YBB321. It plays pretty good.

There's been a few times in university and with my Community Band which I had alternate between playing tuba and euphonium.

[Davidus1]

Thanks John. I find the bass Trombone to be a different beast altogether. Very different. I've played trombone for many years but bass trombone is so much more difficult (for me). You would think coming from tuba it would be easier with the size. I've heard others say that but I've not found that to be the case. Yes, I guess you are a quadrupler indeed!

Although I think it should be called "quadrupler", because I play 4 instruments, I am an instrument doubler. Euphonium is my main instrument. I play tenor trombone in one orchestra. I play bass trombone in another orchestra. And I play Eb tuba in a brass quintet and other ensembles. I find the Eb tuba to be easier to switch back and forth from euphonium than a Bb tuba would be. I play a 4 piston valve compensating tuba. I think Eb is easier for me just because the Bb is a bigger blow and harder for me to get used to as quickly as I can Eb. Although if I were to play tuba in an orchestra on a regular basis, I would probably go with a Bb tuba. The Eb works nicely in small ensembles like a brass quintet.

[Davidus1]

Thanks Dave. Yes, I hadn't thought about the valve configuration being a more natural fit.....makes complete sense. Having to use my left hand on the 4th valve was hard for me to adjust to at first. I envy the treble clef reading! I keep putting off working on my treble sight reading but I really need to do that. By the way........do you feel it did improve your air and sound? I guess having to use much more volume of air on the tuba helped?

Euphonium is my main instrument. In high school I taught myself trombone, and played it in some brass ensembles in college. Then in the CG Band I played trombone in the jazz ensemble, and also with the Eastern Connecticut Symphony.

In the 1980's I had a chance to get a Sovereign Eb as a Besson artist - they sent me the horn but I had to work off the value in clinics and so on. Couldn't pass it up. Part of my motive was to improve my air/sound on euphonium. I enjoyed it! I Finally I really understood why tuba players seem to have so much fun. Later I played in a CT brass band, and after moving to MN I played in our church group and in a brass band here briefly.

I find the Eb side valve configuration makes it feel like a big euphonium, which is slightly convenient. Also, the playing characteristics are quite similar to euphonium. Techniques used to play it are nearly identical: fingers, chop operation, warm-air concept, and tonguing. It does require more air quantity if you go low, but it is pretty well proven that a given note in a given octave takes about as much wind on tuba or euphonium. I think it's a great double for a euphonium player.

Peculiar to me, perhaps, is that my brain is always thinking in Bb treble clef. So I can just read bass clef tuba music as treble clef, modifying accidentals as needed, and I had a big head start on learning. The big drawback is when I encounter wide intervals - my pitch memory comes into play and messes up my target!

[Davidus1]

Thanks for sharing. Very sorry to hear about your friend. Life is precious and we never know how much time we have. Very glad to hear his brother is a player. That's great.

I played most of my military music career on Miraphone tubas. I enjoyed them but the trend now seems to be bigger, bigger and bigger. There are more models of 6/4 tubas coming out that I've ever seen. I owned a gigantic Cerveny 693, 20" bell, .835 bore horn for awhile. It put out massive sound but was difficult to play cleanly in technical passages when compared to a 4/4 or 5/4 horn and I ended up selling it and buying a B&S. Playing on a Mack Tuba now.

I played on a friends silver plated Willson 4 valve compensating Eb tuba once. I really like it. Sadly, my friend was killed in a vehicle accident around 20 years ago, really great tuba player and just a great guy. I believe his older brother, a really great tuba player who lives in Texas has it. Eb would be sufficient for what I would be playing.

For tubas, in university, I played on a Bb Miraphone. It had rotary valves. The one I played on, the mid register was a bit klutzy sounding and tricky to control. In the one semester which I play tuba in a wind ensemble, I was given a bassoon part to play which the part was all soft mid register playing on tuba and it was fairly slow. While I could play the part on tuba, I ended up playing the part on my euphonium and made my life a lot easier! The other tuba player, an amateur community player said he couldn't play the part on his Bb tuba. There's been a few times playing in a brass quintet which I grabbed my euphonium and played the tuba part as written since I didn't have access to an Eb tuba. Scherzo by John Cheetham is the best example of this. With my Community Band, the highschool has a Yamaha YBB321. It plays pretty good.

There's been a few times in university and with my Community Band which I had alternate between playing tuba and euphonium.

[davewerden]

...By the way........do you feel it did improve your air and sound? I guess having to use much more volume of air on the tuba helped?

Yes, it did. Oddly, it even helped my chop strength in the high range.

[bbocaner]

started on euphonium, majored in trombone. I have two tubas, one I bought so I could sub with a brass band on tuba (E-flat) and one I bought mostly for noodling around but also for musical cross-training in the low register and for getting big breaths, and with which I've been able to do a few gigs (CC).

I find the CC fingerings to be easy. I started thinking of them as just a step away from B-flat fingerings and after a week or so of practice I really didn't need to think about them at all any more.

The E-flat fingerings I initially equated to alto trombone positions in my head, but as I got better I didn't need to do that anymore. In a brass band I just use "trumpet fingerings" as the music is in transposed treble clef. But I do get crossed up from time to time. I find the CC fingerings a heck of a lot easier to deal with, perhaps just because I've practiced them more.

[Davidus1]

I find it interesting the different roads musicians take to where they are now. I played CC tuba for a couple of years but ended up back on BBb as I preferred it. I have only played Eb for a couple of years as well and definitely not comfortable with the fingerings. My sight reading suffers on Eb! Thanks for sharing.

started on euphonium, majored in trombone. I have two tubas, one I bought so I could sub with a brass band on tuba (E-flat) and one I bought mostly for noodling around but also for musical cross-training in the low register and for getting big breaths, and with which I've been able to do a few gigs (CC).

I find the CC fingerings to be easy. I started thinking of them as just a step away from B-flat fingerings and after a week or so of practice I really didn't need to think about them at all any more.

The E-flat fingerings I initially equated to alto trombone positions in my head, but as I got better I didn't need to do that anymore. In a brass band I just use "trumpet fingerings" as the music is in transposed treble clef. But I do get crossed up from time to time. I find the CC fingerings a heck of a lot easier to deal with, perhaps just because I've practiced them more.

[djwpe]

Euphonium is my primary, but I play tenor, bass, and alto trombones, as well as BBb tuba. I find the tuba double is the easiest to maintain, but if I play too much tuba, it makes my euphonium sound too dark and dull.

I find Bass Trombone to be the most similar blow to euphonium.

Don Winston

[massmanute]

Interesting conversation.

I have been thinking of getting a tuba, either a small 3/4 size 4 valve Bb or a 4 valve compensating Eb. It may actually be a little to early in my come-back to add another instrument, but I am intrigued with the possibility.

I found a place that has a small non-compensating Bb tuba with 4 rotary valves that has good reviews for about $1,000. It is a Chinese clone of a major brand. I am tempted to get one because it could be within my budget, and, being a smaller instrument (with a small bore I might add) it might fit my lung capacity better than a larger instrument.

Are most of the fingerings of a 4 valve Bb the same as bass clef euphonium? I say "most" of the fingerings because the tuba is non-compensating, and my euphonium is compensating. I know treble clef on the euphonium, and I am learning bass clef on the euphonium, so not having to learn a new set of bass clef fingerings could make it easier. I am aware of the trick for reading Eb as if it were a treble clef instrument with a shift in key signature, so maybe it's a toss up when it comes to fingerings (Eb vs. Bb). What do you think?

[John Morgan]

Interesting conversation.

I have been thinking of getting a tuba, either a small 3/4 size 4 valve Bb or a 4 valve compensating Eb. It may actually be a little to early in my come-back to add another instrument, but I am intrigued with the possibility.

I found a place that has a small non-compensating Bb tuba with 4 rotary valves that has good reviews for about $1,000. It is a Chinese clone of a major brand. I am tempted to get one because it could be within my budget, and, being a smaller instrument (with a small bore I might add) it might fit my lung capacity better than a larger instrument.

Are most of the fingerings of a 4 valve Bb the same as bass clef euphonium? I say "most" of the fingerings because the tuba is non-compensating, and my euphonium is compensating. I know treble clef on the euphonium, and I am learning bass clef on the euphonium, so not having to learn a new set of bass clef fingerings could make it easier. I am aware of the trick for reading Eb as if it were a treble clef instrument with a shift in key signature, so maybe it's a toss up when it comes to fingerings (Eb vs. Bb). What do you think?

The fingerings for a Bb tuba are the same as for a euphonium. The difference being that the tuba is written an octave down from the euphonium. So for a euphonium bass clef C in the staff, that would be fingered 1&3 or 4, whereas that same note in that same position on the staff for a Bb tuba would be fingered 1 (you could play it 1&3 or 4 also) like the euphonium C right above the staff. As for the compensating vs. non-compensating, the fingerings are still the same, just that the compensating horn will be better in tune on those notes that use the compensating tubing (notes that have fingerings that include the 4th valve).