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Thread: Thoughts on Downsizing

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by AlexS View Post
    Also faxx makes a copy of the 51d that you could snag for like $40 If you’d like a metal one with minimal investment.

    Alex S
    Alex, when I was looking for an inexpensive way to try out a smaller mouthpiece, it was a tossup between the Faxx 51D and the Kelly. I ultimately decided to go with the Kelly, although I'm not sure it was worth the emotional victory that saving $20 gave me! I have heard decent things about Faxx mouthpieces so maybe I will pick one up to try.

    Could you share any of your experiences working down from the SM3 to the 51D? Were there any unexpected changes in your playing? Your favorite things about the switch?

    Quote Originally Posted by dsurkin View Post
    Have you considered the Bowman BB1? It's a tweaked 51D and I find it gives me a nice tone on my Mack Brass horn
    Dean, I haven't really considered that, but it is something to consider since you seem to like yours on your Mack Brass. I notice you also have a DE mouthpiece. Can you comment on the feel of the DE101 rim compared to the BB1/51D?

  2. #12
    Sure! I should say that the main thing leading the change was me actively changing the way I wanted to sound. I did shift my playing quite a bit too. It shifted the horn from less of a free-blowing experience to more of a resistance experience. I had to learn to relax and let the instrument do more of the work, I couldn't "take charge" and move air until the instrument did what I wanted. (I think sometimes we're conditioned to think we want "free Blowing" equipment whether that's the right choice for us or not)The smaller mouthpiece leaves me less tired than the large one, I feel like my playing is a little more effortless and sounds that way, the sound change and clarity boost makes it easier to blend in a concert band, and I have an easier time playing soft. All in all, the equipment change is only as big a deal as you make it. It can take a couple days to feel comfortable, but it's not as large of a hurdle as some people make it out to be. Music is too great and too fun to let numbers and specifications get in the way.

    Alex S
    P.s. My tuba teacher played a concert with the Charleston symphony with a kelly Lexan mouthpiece and nobody outside of the trombone section noticed; he only receive compliments. Those kelly mouthpieces aren't anything to regret, plus they're great car mouthpieces if you want to buzz on your way to rehearsal.

  3. #13
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroberts781 View Post
    [snip] Dean, I haven't really considered that, but it is something to consider since you seem to like yours on your Mack Brass. I notice you also have a DE mouthpiece. Can you comment on the feel of the DE101 rim compared to the BB1/51D?
    I got the DE used - it's a gold-plated XT101 rim. I like the rim a lot, but the cup that came with it was too small to get a good sound from the euphonium. I feel that I get a better vibrato with the gold-plated mouthpiece than I do with the usual silver-plated ones.
    Dean L. Surkin
    Mack Brass MACK-EU1150S, BB1 mouthpiece
    Bach 36B trombone; Bach 6.5AL and Faxx 7C mouthpieces (pBone on loan to granddaughter)
    Steinway 1902 Model A, restored by AC Pianocraft in 1988; Kawai MP8, Yamaha KX-76
    See my avatar: Jazz (the black cockapoo; RIP) and Delilah (the cavapoo) keep me company while practicing

  4. I can’t comment on the BB1, but to me an Elliott 101 feels larger, rounder, narrower, and slightly sharper on the inside edge than a 51D rim. The jump from the 51D to the 101 is much smaller than the jump from the 101 to a Wick 4.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS View Post
    I can’t comment on the BB1, but to me an Elliott 101 feels larger, rounder, narrower, and slightly sharper on the inside edge than a 51D rim. The jump from the 51D to the 101 is much smaller than the jump from the 101 to a Wick 4.
    DE implies that he makes several different rim styles in the 101 size. From his web site:

    The MT series has a general "feel" about like a 7C.
    The LT series has a general "feel" about like a 5G
    The XT series has a general "feel" about like a 4G
    All are available in my standard shape and Narrow, which is a thin rim.
    EUPH 101 and N101 (25.65 mm) The rim shapes are identical to my tenor trombone rims, regular and narrow.
    Dean L. Surkin
    Mack Brass MACK-EU1150S, BB1 mouthpiece
    Bach 36B trombone; Bach 6.5AL and Faxx 7C mouthpieces (pBone on loan to granddaughter)
    Steinway 1902 Model A, restored by AC Pianocraft in 1988; Kawai MP8, Yamaha KX-76
    See my avatar: Jazz (the black cockapoo; RIP) and Delilah (the cavapoo) keep me company while practicing

  6. #16
    Thanks for clarifying Dean. I was specifically thinking about the EUPH 101 regular rim when I asked my question, which probably feels slightly different from the XT101 rim you have. And yours is in gold-plate, which will also affect any comparisons in how it feels. In any case thanks for sharing your perspective and experience. Gives me something to think about.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by dsurkin View Post
    DE implies that he makes several different rim styles in the 101 size. From his web site:

    The MT series has a general "feel" about like a 7C.
    The LT series has a general "feel" about like a 5G
    The XT series has a general "feel" about like a 4G
    All are available in my standard shape and Narrow, which is a thin rim.
    I don't think he means feel on your face. The 101 size is a measure of the diameter of the rim. That's what you "feel" when you put the mouthpiece up to your face. A EUPH 101 is exactly the same shape on the outer edge as a XT or LT 101. What is different is the inner interface with the cup. Your lips do enter into the cup to some extent, but it makes a difference to the general way that the mouthpiece blows and the general "feel" of the way the mouthpiece plays.
    --
    Barry

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by aroberts781 View Post
    Alex, when I was looking for an inexpensive way to try out a smaller mouthpiece, it was a tossup between the Faxx 51D and the Kelly. I ultimately decided to go with the Kelly, although I'm not sure it was worth the emotional victory that saving $20 gave me! I have heard decent things about Faxx mouthpieces so maybe I will pick one up to try.

    Could you share any of your experiences working down from the SM3 to the 51D? Were there any unexpected changes in your playing? Your favorite things about the switch?



    Dean, I haven't really considered that, but it is something to consider since you seem to like yours on your Mack Brass. I notice you also have a DE mouthpiece. Can you comment on the feel of the DE101 rim compared to the BB1/51D?
    Regarding the DE 101 vs the 51D, the 51D rim is smaller. DE measured it as a 1.00 size vs his 1.01. The BB1 rim is nominally a 1.02, but it is much sharper than either the 51D or the DE 101.

    Mike

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by aroberts781 View Post
    Thanks for clarifying Dean. I was specifically thinking about the EUPH 101 regular rim when I asked my question, which probably feels slightly different from the XT101 rim you have. And yours is in gold-plate, which will also affect any comparisons in how it feels. In any case thanks for sharing your perspective and experience. Gives me something to think about.
    The EUPH 101 and the XT 101 rim shapes are the same. What is different is the EUPH rim has a wider threaded portion to accommodate the wider EUPH cup. The cups depths are the same. For example, an LT I cup is the same depth as the XT I cup and the EUPH I cup. What changes is the width of the cup and the contour.

    Mike

  10. #20
    Thanks for the discussion on the various DE items as well as comparisons to the 51D. I think my plan for now remains to keep experimenting with the smaller piece (Kelly 51D) to see how I like it. I can always pull out my DE EUPH 105 I I8 or my 3AL when I want to compare big vs small. Down the road, I will make the call on whether to stick with the 105/3AL size or go for a smaller rim size on my Doug Elliott. One of the things I was looking forward to with the Doug Elliott was being able to change single aspects of the mouthpiece, so if I decide I like staying small I will start with a smaller DE EUPH rim, probably 102, maybe 101.

    At the end of the day, I like what Alex said about not letting numbers and measurements get in the way of making music. Obviously for some if not all there are some physical limitations on what type of mouthpiece does or doesn't work, but for now I haven't yet found that messing around with the smaller Kelly 51D is unpleasant, just different.
    Last edited by aroberts781; 05-15-2020 at 02:27 PM. Reason: spelling

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