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Thread: Does anyone make an Eb euphonium

  1. #1

    Does anyone make an Eb euphonium

    I just bought a John Packer JP372S Eb alto/tenor horn. But I was wondering if there is such a thing as an Eb euphonium?

  2. #2
    Not that I've ever heard of. If one were to be made, I assume it would be a slightly narrower bore/bell kinda thing to balance the shorter length, so it would not have the sound a Bb does (similar to a Bb trumpet compared to an Eb trumpet).
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
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  3. #3
    I have a really old Eb Bass with a 12.25" bell and .604" bore...so it's a similar idea. Maybe a little bigger than what you're thinking, but close enough. It can be played as a Euphonium with a small enough mouthpiece and Bb Horn fingerings, but the sound is surprisingly bright. It wouldn't fool anyone, and I don't really like playing it that way.

    Wessex considers their British F Tuba a bass Euphonium and it sounds more the part.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by davewerden View Post
    Not that I've ever heard of. If one were to be made, I assume it would be a slightly narrower bore/bell kinda thing to balance the shorter length, so it would not have the sound a Bb does (similar to a Bb trumpet compared to an Eb trumpet).
    Yes, I was thinking of one being made with exactly the same relative proportions. Like putting it through the hot water cycle in the washer, and then the dryer so it shrinks to exactly Eb. The result would be a sweet-toned alto UFOnium. I had my Wessex Festivo with my SM4XR in mind. Both shrunk and much lighter. I also expect the mouthpiece would end up being on the smaller side of the alto trombone territory, but not as small as my Alliance 2A @ 19mm. Maybe ~22mm.

    Given the multitude of horns that have been made around Eb, Iím shocked this hasnít been done already. If we consider the tenor horn I have to approximate an Eb version of a bari-tone, and I do, then I dub the the alto-tone, then the Eb version of the UFOnium would be the altoFonium.

    I want one! Do you?

  5. #5
    Oh. You want Eb Alto, not Eb Bass. Yeah, that's a thing.

    The old Russian Alto Horns are so big as to basically be Alto Tuba. Literally the same profile and relative bore as a British Baritone Horn, but in Eb. The sound is incredibly bold and almost unbearably loud. The smaller Ukrainian models (which are still stupid big compared to modern altos) have a sound more like an American Euphonium.

    *edit*
    Added photo.

    The Russian model uses a 10.5mm shank mouthpiece which is larger than normal, but smaller than small shank Trombone. It plays well with a relatively deep 19.5mm cup. I would not go as large as 22mm, but I'm also adamantly against Alto Trombone mouthpieces in general.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by notaverygoodname; 04-30-2020 at 06:26 PM. Reason: added more info and photo

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by notaverygoodname View Post
    Oh. You want Eb Alto, not Eb Bass. Yeah, that's a thing.

    The old Russian Alto Horns are so big as to basically be Alto Tuba. Literally the same profile and relative bore as a British Baritone Horn, but in Eb. The sound is incredibly bold and almost unbearably loud. The smaller Ukrainian models (which are still stupid big compared to modern altos) have a sound more like an American Euphonium.

    *edit*
    Added photo.

    The Russian model uses a 10.5mm shank mouthpiece which is larger than normal, but smaller than small shank Trombone. It plays well with a relatively deep 19.5mm cup. I would not go as large as 22mm, but I'm also adamantly against Alto Trombone mouthpieces in general.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bigaltos.jpg 
Views:	11 
Size:	3.12 MB 
ID:	7605

    On trombone, I play a Rath 5. But I’m old, and have essential tremors that interferes with playing to the point that I started looking for something I could hold still. After 65 years on bone, it isn’t easy changing. The alternative is to giveup which I refuse to do. So my first venture was to euphonium which seemed an obvious choice. So I bought a Schiller Elite. It’s a very good horn, but I couldn’t find a way to hold it still. I started looking around and came across the Festevo. Did some research, mostly here, and ordered one. Holding it still is much better than trombone, but still not quite good enough. A couple of weeks ago I heard Sheona White on YT. She was playing a little duet for euphonium and tenor horn with Misa Mead. I loved the tone quality she produced with it,and I could see it would be much easier to hold and control, so I ordered one. It arrived two days ago. I was not expecting the mouthpiece to be as small as it is. I’ve ordered a few pieces to see if I could find one I could adjust to better. But last night it occurred to me to see if my small shank bone mouthpiece could squeeze into the receiver. It could. About a quarter of an inch. I’m totally suprised how well it plays with the 11C. So I got to thinking about a Bach 22 which is 23.92mm. So that got me to thinking of getting a custom even smaller, but still in reaching distance of my trombone embouchure. I don’t have a couple of years time to develop a new embouchure if I can find a way to bypass the process. I’m 75, death is waiting for me on the front porch! I’m in a hurry! But I’m not giving up. 22mm is a compromise that might work. I’m going to give it a try as my next step. Any thoughts and ideas appreciated.
    Last edited by S-euph; 05-01-2020 at 07:28 AM.

  7. #7
    I'll say this. There are mouthpieces that sort of fit that description. You are absolutely going to struggle with range and intonation going this route. I have tried to play my big Alto with an old school Alto Trombone mouthpiece. 22.5mm cup and super shallow...~20mm deep. Plays terrible, and that's with a super tiny cup volume. I have a bigger mouthpiece that actually fits and it's predictably less enjoyable. You can try to fight with the horn, but at the end of the day, there's a limit to what mouthpiece size it will tolerate, and you still have to be able to buzz the notes.

    Josef Klier has a number of sizes for Parforcehorn mouthpieces, and 10mm shank is an option for them. You can direct order in email.

    PA02D 10.0mm is probably deeper than your horn wants, but it's as close as you can get without custom ordering.
    PT4D 10.0mm is going to be like an old school Alto Trombone mouthpiece.

    If you insist on 22mm, you could custom order a 211-1 (Cologne series) on 10mm shank for about $100 and hope for the best.

    Actually, you know what? ...just buy a jHorn mouthpiece.
    Last edited by notaverygoodname; 04-30-2020 at 09:18 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by S-euph View Post
    On trombone, I play a Rath 5. But I’m old, and have essential tremors that interferes with playing to the point that I started looking for something I could hold still. After 65 years on bone, it isn’t easy changing. The alternative is to giveup which I refuse to do. So my first venture was to euphonium which seemed an obvious choice. So I bought a Schiller Elite. It’s a very good horn, but I couldn’t find a way to hold it still. I started looking around and came across the Festevo. Did some research, mostly here, and ordered one. Holding it still is much better than trombone, but still not quite good enough. A couple of weeks ago I heard Sheona White on YT. She was playing a little duet for euphonium and tenor horn with Misa Mead. I loved the tone quality she produced with it,and I could see it would be much easier to hold and control, so I ordered one. It arrived two days ago. I was not expecting the mouthpiece to be as small as it is. I’ve ordered a few pieces to see if I could find one I could adjust to better. But last night it occurred to me to see if my small shank bone mouthpiece could squeeze into the receiver. It could. About a quarter of an inch. I’m totally suprised how well it plays with the 11C. So I got to thinking about a Bach 22 which is 23.92mm. So that got me to thinking of getting a custom even smaller, but still in reaching distance of my trombone embouchure. I don’t have a couple of years time to develop a new embouchure if I can find a way to bypass the process. I’m 75, death is waiting for me on the front porch! I’m in a hurry! But I’m not giving up. 22mm is a compromise that might work. I’m going to give it a try as my next step. Any thoughts and ideas appreciated.
    yeah, Sheona White has one of the darkest sounds around on tenorhorn. It can be done with the relatively small TH mouthpiece. It's all about the warm air, relaxed embouchure, etc.
    --
    Barry

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by bbocaner View Post
    yeah, Sheona White has one of the darkest sounds around on tenorhorn. It can be done with the relatively small TH mouthpiece. It's all about the warm air, relaxed embouchure, etc.
    Since back-in-the-day, 70-80s my friends claimed my trombone sound reminded them of Urbie Green’s. And I’ve always prided myself on having voluptuous tone quality up to the 2010s or so. And I’m absolutely confident I could achieve that dark quality with the standard sized TH mouthpiece..........eventually. But I’m not expecting eventually ever to arrive. Every male member of my family except me has died of heart problems by age 55, I’m 75. On the positive side, Early indicators, 3-days of playing, are that I’m going to be able to hold my just acquired TH still enough to enjoy playing it. Trombone, 65 years, and very recently purchased fabulously sounding Festivo playing is ruined by essential tremors. So I’m eager to find a mouthpiece that would, to some degree, allow me to use my highly developed trombone embouchure. Hence the 22mm custom idea based on how my TH plays with an 11C Bach just barely inserted. I’m hopeful.

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