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Thread: Low Bb is out of tune

  1. Low Bb is out of tune

    I have a Jinbao baritone horn. The low concert Bb (second line of bass clef) is about 20+ cents flat compared to the other partials.

    I don't have this intonation problem on other horns.

    Anyone else ever experienced this on any horn? What could be the cause?

  2. #2
    Welcome to the forum!

    Our 9-foot Bb instruments can sometimes be flat on that note. However, sometimes it is a matter of the player adapting to the instrument. Other times it can be exacerbated by the choice of mouthpiece. Too large a mouthpiece can make a small problem worse. What mouthpiece are you using?
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  3. Thanks for the reply! I'm using a Schilke 40B, which is one of the smallest mouthpieces you can get. Using the same mouthpiece on a Yamaha 4-valve euphonium and Reynolds trombone works fine in regards to the intonation.

  4. #4
    OK, then it is not the cup size. Do you have another brand of mouthpiece in that shank size. SOME Schilke mouthpieces stick out of the receiver more than a standard Bach or Wick. I've found that troublesome in the past. I believe Schilke also offers a shank that fits like a Bach, but I'm not sure if that is standard.

    (Of course, it's also possible this is just how the horn plays.)
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  5. I have access to several Bach mouthpieces, such as the 6 1/2 AL and 12C. I will try them tomorrow to see if they fit farther in and if they have better intonation on that note. Thanks!

  6. #6
    40b?? That’s unbelievably small. 48(c) would be more like a standard baritone size.
    --
    Barry

  7. #7
    Sounds like a shank size issue. Can you take a photo of how the mouthpiece is fitting? Be sure to compare it to the stock mouthpiece if you have that. If your Schilke mouthpiece is fitting really deep, then that's the problem.

    Other tell-tale symptoms:
    Can't play low F at all
    Hard to play high (should be obvious with your 40B)
    Last edited by notaverygoodname; 04-28-2020 at 09:49 PM.

  8. If I remember correctly, the mouthpiece goes in about a 1/3 inch farther in the baritone than it does in the vintage Reynolds trombone.

  9. #9
    Yeah, that's significant. I suggest trying the Bach 381 adapter. It should fix the issue. As a test, try to shim it with some paper. Just a single layer of paper should increase the shank by ~0.5mm.

    I had a similar problem with my "Maestro" rotary Euph. It came with, what I assume was an 11.5mm shank receiver, but the stock mouthpiece was medium shank. I didn't know that much about the topic of shank sizes at the time, so I just assumed it was built wrong and reamed it out to medium shank. Never played all that well with that set-up. Later, once I knew what the heck I was doing, I reamed it out yet again to 12mm shank and that fixed it, more or less.

  10. #10
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    Okay, I am a little confused. If the low Bb is flat and we want to raise it, either shorten main slide (all in or cut in drastic cases) or use mouthpiece that goes further in, not further out. But I don't think the further in, further out with the mouthpiece makes a big difference. I own an Adams with an adjustable gap receiver. I don't get much, if any, of a pitch difference in the various positions of the receiver, which is somewhat similar to the mouthpiece fitting further in or further out.

    I am a very senior citizen, and it is morning before coffee, so take all of what I said above with these facts in mind. Could be I have it all backwards, but I don't think so.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium,
    1973 F. E. Olds & Son Studio Model T-31 Baritone
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
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