A notation question?

[ann reid]

My last lesson was March 3, and I practice at least an hour every day, pandemic or not.
I’ve added a couple scales and a one octave chromatic scale, slowly, and working with a metronome to improve the scales I do in two octaves.
I’ve added 3 or 4 pieces from Arban’s Trombone book, and Rochut 7.

So I decided to buy a copy of Vaughan Williams’ “Six Studies........” because I love it, not too hard etc.

This version is in 3 voices, treble clef, bass clef in Bb, and bass clef in C. It is a Stainer and Bell product. No accompaniment score, just the three euphonium parts.

My question is, which bass clef part would work for me with the piano score, the Bb or the C? I assume this would have to do with British notation for low brass right? Or is it something else?

Bottom line should I practice Bb or C?

Any suggestions will be appreciated!

[adrian_quince]

You'll want to use the C bass clef part. Bb bass clef is for folks in certain countries in continental Europe like Belgium that have a transposing bass clef tradition. The Brit tradition is based on transposing treble clef.

[John Morgan]

Ann,

Play the bass clef part where the first study has one sharp, and the very first note is an E natural. I looked up the euphonium music you bought and then I looked up the piano score.

That is a nice piece of music.

John

[ann reid]

Thanks to you both!

[ann reid]

I’m back for more info on this topic. After working on a couple of these, I’m ready to go the whole nine yards to get them up to my standard of performance ready.

Sometimes as a long time musician and simultaneously a beginner, I forget important things, and this is a case in point. Obviously, there are editions of these, so is there anything close to an urtext version that works for euphonium? And is there a euphonium version in print that is a preferred learning version?

I’ve listened to versions online in which the slurs, phrasing, even tied note lengths etc are very different from the one I have. I’ve done some vocal solos by VW and played most of the wind ensemble work, but I need more direction about how much liberty to take with “Six Studies.....”.

Thank you for any help you can give me!

[John Morgan]

Well, first things first. I have lived a sheltered life. I had absolutely no idea what "urtext" meant and thought you mistyped a word. I looked it up and learned something today. Thanks for that!!

Now as for how to play the Six Studies... I can't say for sure how it should be played, but if you are playing this alone or with a piano accompaniment, then clearly you have the liberty to play the work as you please and feel. And if you are really familiar with Vaughn Williams and his works, you probably know a lot about his music and style already.

Go here to get a score for cello and piano. https://imslp.org/wiki/6_Studies_in_...iams%2C_Ralph)

VW wrote this piece for Cello and Piano. It has been transcribed for other instruments by him and others. The score above may show how it was intended, at least for the cello. If I were looking for an authentic version for euphonium, I would simply play the cello part, although in looking it over, some of it may be beyond the range of most euphonium players. Probably why other versions for other instruments were transcribed. But you could clearly use it to check slurs, phrasing, ties, etc. that you mentioned above.

There is also a bit of information in Wikipedia here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_St...lish_Folk_Song

Hope that helps a bit.

[daruby]

My favorite edition of "Six Studies in English Folk-Song" is the adaptation done by Paul Droste, formerly band director of The Ohio State University Marching Band (aka Best Damn Band in the Land). He is also former director of the Brass Band of Columbus and served two terms as chairman of NABBA. He is also a euphonium player and recordings of his performance of the work are available.

In my version, published by Galaxy Music Corporation in 1986, the first movement is in concert F and starts on the mid-staff D. This is down one full step from the original Vaughan-Williams work for cello. That one full step helps out a lot in several of the movements. It includes piano accompaniment in the transposed keys as well. Droste's recording is of this version. I think I downloaded it from Apple some time ago.

See if you can find this online. If not, PM me and I might be able to help.

Doug

[John Morgan]

...In my version, published by Galaxy Music Corporation in 1986, the first movement is in concert F and starts on the mid-staff D. This is down one full step from the original Vaughan-Williams work for cello...Doug

I think it is actually D minor instead of concert F. The original is up a step and in E minor.

[John Morgan]

Doug mentioned Paul Droste's recording of the "Six Studies in English Folk Song". Go here to listen: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...tGoqp0zXLj64iM

Doug is right, this is nice.

[daruby]

I think it is actually D minor instead of concert F. The original is up a step and in E minor.

You are, of course, so correct. Now you know my secret. I was a computer science major and never took a Music Theory class, or any academic music class, for that matter!!! I did manage to rehearse and/or perform 20-30 hours/week my last couple of years in University, though.

[daruby]

BTW, my brother, John, and I performed this suite on clarinet and euphonium in a recital in 2018. He did mvmts 1, 3 , 5 and I did 2, 4, 6. His version was in the original key and mine was down a step. The accompanist had to arrange her music to skip between versions on every movement! Gloria is in her '80's and a wonderful pianist. She did this without missing a beat. I also performed this on English Baritone in 2010 (or so) at the NABBA in Raleigh, NC accompanied by Stephen Bulla.

Doug

[davewerden]

I was a computer science major and never took a Music Theory class, or any academic music class, for that matter!!! I did manage to rehearse and/or perform 20-30 hours/week my last couple of years in University, though.

20-30 hours - wow! One might suspect you used your computer skills to hack into the schools academic requirements db to arrange this

[daruby]

Dvae,

It was the last year ('73) of Computer Science through the College of Letters and Science. The following year, the CS merged with EE and became EECS through the Engineering School. I never would have been able to immerse myself in music performance if that were the case. But since I was in the "Liberal Arts" school, I was able to use ensembles in the Music department (also Letters and Science) to count towards my graduation as long as I did the minimum prerequisites in Comp Sci. So I played in the Cal Band (huge time commitment), University Jazz Band, Wind Ensemble, Brass Ensemble, some free-lance stuff, etc., etc. Kept me sane in a pretty insane time (late 60's early 70's).

Doug

[John Morgan]

You are, of course, so correct. Now you know my secret. I was a computer science major and never took a Music Theory class, or any academic music class, for that matter!!! I did manage to rehearse and/or perform 20-30 hours/week my last couple of years in University, though.

Aha! You have spilled the beans! But, I, too, must confess! Full disclosure, I have a BS in Mathematics. And an MS (courtesy of the U.S. Army) in Computer Science with emphasis in Cryptography!! And I, too, never had a formal Music Theory class in college, although I have done a lot of independent study of theory on my own. (I own the traditional harmony/theory books and workbooks and have used them extensively over the years). And I still am and always was a prolific player, as I suspect you were/are, too.

[daruby]

John,

Both of my parents were music majors at the Univ. of Michigan, with my dad graduating in '42 and my mother in '43. Dad ended up as a band director after the war and my mom played and taught violin and viola. I absolutely enjoyed playing cello and euphonium in my schools years/ While I had marvelous private instructors (not my parents) as a beginner through high school, I was determined NEVER to become a music teacher, so I avoided all forms of academic music (Music Theory, harmony, composition, etc.). I was determined never to make music my business.

To this day, I have so much respect for good music teachers, that I have avoided all suggestions of teaching on my own with just 2 exceptions. I did tutor two young euphonium players in the last 3 years. One auditioned at a number of schools and is finishing his second year at CMU on euphonium/trombone. The other graduates this year from HS and is planning a "science/technical" direction (like me) but wanted to improve his level of play so he could participate effectively at the college level. In both cases, they came to me on recommendation from their private teacher (a trumpet player) with the goal of working on sound, repertoire, and musicianship, areas I can help.

Doug