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Thread: Selecting a Besson

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Hidden Valley, AZ
    Posts
    1,034
    I'm with Doug on a longer look at them, and I just LOVE satin finish epuhs!

    DG

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Summerfield, Florida Sturgis, SD (summers)
    Posts
    1,867
    Grab that Besson at Duchy Brass now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Looks wonderful and will be a good solid horn. Did I say to get it now???????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium,
    1973 F. E. Olds & Son Studio Model T-31 Baritone
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Year Round Except Summer:
    Kingdom of the Sun (KOS) Concert Band, Ocala, FL (Euphonium)
    KOS Brass Quintet (Trombone, Euphonium)
    Summer Only:
    Rapid City Municipal Band, Rapid City, SD (Euphonium)
    Rapid City New Horizons Band (Euphonium)

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    New Jersey, U.S.A.
    Posts
    155
    Quote Originally Posted by daruby View Post
    Horn 2: Based on serial number, this is a 1985 Sovereign. Again, the amount of corrosion under the lacquer is worrisome. New Besson horns use an epoxy lacquer that is pretty resistant to wear, etc. Older Besson horns used lacquer that didn't hold up and would absolutely melt if you used bug spray in outdoor play situations. I personally would steer away from this horn as well.
    That's gotta be Nitrocellulose lacquer, which is still used by a lot of repair shops for touchup work and refinishing. Nikolas lacquer is "Nitro" based, and Bach Trombones and Trumpets used to use it, as did many other companies, before they moved to epoxy.

    The problem, as many know, is that it doesn't cure, it just dries, and exposure to certain chemicals, like bug spray, ruin it. It also was the finish of choice for guitar clearcoats, and Gibson and others STILL use it due to the magical properties it has. Quite a number of horror stories have resulted from outdoor gigs, bug spray, and guitars.

    Looking back at that sovereign, it just really doesn't look like it was properly taken care of, at all. Probably never cleaned inside or out, so who knows what the valves look like.
    Sterling / Perantucci 1065HGS Euphonium, 1952 B&H Imperial Eb Tuba, and a bunch of trombones.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by tbonesullivan View Post
    That's gotta be Nitrocellulose lacquer, which is still used by a lot of repair shops for touchup work and refinishing. Nikolas lacquer is "Nitro" based, and Bach Trombones and Trumpets used to use it, as did many other companies, before they moved to epoxy.
    Yes, I couldn't remember the name. Besson DID use Nitrocellulose lacquer on the old horns. The lacquered Sovereigns (which my 1980 was before I had it restored in silver) were very prone to lacquer wear. Even w/o bug spray, my body chemistry was hard on that stuff.

    A lot of manufacturers no longer use this (particularly on brass) and have switched to epoxy lacquer due to the flammability and other OSHA issues.
    Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
    Concord Band
    Winchendon Winds
    Townsend Military Band

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    New Jersey, U.S.A.
    Posts
    155
    Quote Originally Posted by daruby View Post
    Yes, I couldn't remember the name. Besson DID use Nitrocellulose lacquer on the old horns. The lacquered Sovereigns (which my 1980 was before I had it restored in silver) were very prone to lacquer wear. Even w/o bug spray, my body chemistry was hard on that stuff.

    A lot of manufacturers no longer use this (particularly on brass) and have switched to epoxy lacquer due to the flammability and other OSHA issues.
    Yeah, it's just not as durable as the modern epoxy lacquers. Also, it isn't very heat resistant. If you give an older Bach trombone a hot bath... the lacquer falls right off. I think even Bach has now seen the light and gone with epoxy. Nitrocellulose is just bad news overall.
    Sterling / Perantucci 1065HGS Euphonium, 1952 B&H Imperial Eb Tuba, and a bunch of trombones.

  6. It seems I was not quick enough to purchase the 767 at Duchy. I appreciate all the insight and information. If anyone knows of a comparable horn in the $3k range I would appreciate any links or a heads-up. My son's 321 plays very well but he's getting to a level where it may make it more challenging to advance. Thank you!
    Scott

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by tbonesullivan View Post
    Yeah, it's just not as durable as the modern epoxy lacquers. Also, it isn't very heat resistant. If you give an older Bach trombone a hot bath... the lacquer falls right off. I think even Bach has now seen the light and gone with epoxy. Nitrocellulose is just bad news overall.
    In the case of the eBay horn, it has to have been re-lacquered (because of all the apparent buffing its had). It would be quite possible a more modern lacquer is now on the horn. FWIW.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Yorktown, Virginia
    Posts
    277
    Since the Besson 767 circa 1980 (referenced/linked earlier) was a predecessor to the Sovereign series, how does it compare to the 968 (London) in tone and overall performance with its slightly smaller bore (.580)?
    David Shinn
    Peninsula Concert Band
    Yorktown, Virginia



    1971 Besson 181 ‘New Standard’ Euphonium (3+1 compensating) ~ Alliance DC3M
    1971 Besson 176 ‘New Standard’ Euphonium (3 compensating) ~ Alliance DC3M
    1979 Besson 755 'New Standard' Baritone (3 compensating) ~ Alliance DC5S
    1894 Besson ‘Doublophone’ Euphonium (3 + 1 changeover) & Original Leather Case


    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/davidshinn....ibextid=LQQJ4d
    Peninsula Concert Band: https://www.peninsulaconcertband.org/

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinn View Post
    Since the Besson 767 circa 1980 (referenced/linked earlier) was a predecessor to the Sovereign series, how does it compare to the 968 (London) in tone and overall performance with its slightly smaller bore (.580)?
    I believe all the Bessons made in the British factory had a .580 bore. The larger bore did not show up until the German production. The BRITISH 968 had a 580 bore. I know on the Sovereign 967 they only changed the leadpipe and bell from the 767 series. Not sure exactly what they changed on the 968, but it did have a little nicer sound (IMO) than the 767. The German versions have a 590 bore.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Yorktown, Virginia
    Posts
    277
    And when comparing the 968 to the mid-1970’s Besson New Standard / Boosey & Hawkes Imperial, what is the opinion with regards to tone, intonation, responsiveness, etc?
    David Shinn
    Peninsula Concert Band
    Yorktown, Virginia



    1971 Besson 181 ‘New Standard’ Euphonium (3+1 compensating) ~ Alliance DC3M
    1971 Besson 176 ‘New Standard’ Euphonium (3 compensating) ~ Alliance DC3M
    1979 Besson 755 'New Standard' Baritone (3 compensating) ~ Alliance DC5S
    1894 Besson ‘Doublophone’ Euphonium (3 + 1 changeover) & Original Leather Case


    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/davidshinn....ibextid=LQQJ4d
    Peninsula Concert Band: https://www.peninsulaconcertband.org/

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