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Thread: Euphonium Valve Spacing / Span

  1. Yay!!!! Do you know the specs by any chance?

  2. #22
    I measured the following:

    Adams E3: 6.8CM
    Adams E3 with custom short valve set: 6.7CM
    Geneva GvL Cardinal: 6.4CM
    Besson New Standard (medium shank): 6.45CM
    Willson 2060TA: 6.7CM
    Mike Taylor
    Adams E3 - SS Bell/Brushed Lacquer - Custom short valve set
    Adams E3 - SS Bell/Brushed Lacquer - Standard valves - FOR SALE
    Besson BE2056 Baritone
    Illinois Brass Band
    Fox Valley Brass Band

  3. #23
    Hey, can I help? I have some terrible instruments that roughly equate to Euphoniums. Maybe it's helpful for some historical context.

    center to center
    1947 Conn 20-I Short Action : 5.9 cm
    1948 Pan American : 5.5 cm

    Soviet rotary things in 9' Bb : 4.8cm
    "Maestro" Rotary Euphonium : 5.3cm to 3rd, 7.9cm to 4th

    British Standard Baritone Horn : 5.4cm

    Tenor Sousaphone (yes, that one) : 6.5cm

    *edit*
    1955 Trombonium : 5.3cm
    Nuvo jHorn : 5.4cm
    Last edited by notaverygoodname; 03-03-2020 at 12:42 AM. Reason: bonus instruments

  4. #24
    Hello all
    very surprised a 2900 is 6.67 and when an Adams is 6.6-6.7
    i expected Willsons to be narrower spaced
    mostly because Willson are the fastest most consistent valves I've ever used and the only reason I sold my Sterling was that i never got used to its Beufiend valves feeling so large. Probably just what suits me personally kind of thing and totally different to my Round Stamp. The only reason i haven't bought an Adams (yet) is the beufiend valve block
    So to me the next logical question is how far do they depress......
    ive written up quite a few dimensions on valves of my old instruments, ill look the up when im home next.
    cheers
    Current Euphs:
    Besson Prestige (German)
    York Eminence
    Boosey & Hawkes Sovereign (Round Stamp/ Globe)
    Boosey & Hawkes Imperial
    Plus an attic of old classics in various states of repair!

    Previous Euphs:

    Geneva Symphony
    Wilson 2900 with Eminence leadpipe
    Sterling Virtuoso (300 mm heavy red brass bell)
    Cortios 167 II

    'Gob Iron': Doug Elliott Euph 105 I 9s (plus a few others!)


  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by ydave View Post
    ...very surprised a 2900 is 6.67 and when an Adams is 6.6-6.7
    i expected Willsons to be narrower spaced, mostly because Willson are the fastest most consistent valves I've ever used...
    Here's a thought. I wonder if the valve finger buttons could make a difference in feel. On MY Adams I have the gemstone inserts, and the style of insert is concave. Because of the "dip" they tend to make me want to keep my fingers centered (which I like anyway). But Adams horns come standard with a convex metal cap. If you used the standard cap, your 1st and 3rd fingers could site slightly inset with no problem, I think, which would reduce your finger span. Did you try an Adams with the standard caps?

    Of course, there are other reasons the Willson valves could feel lighter - they might actually weigh less! I have not checked. If they are not stainless steel they might be lighter. Or if the SS thickness is less that would lower weight. Also, how long are the Willson pistons (not counting the stem)? If they were more compact somehow, that would reduce weight.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  6. #26
    Hi Dave
    yes there are quite a few more variables when you start thinking it thru...
    your right I tried a few Adams out at Mr Tuba in Wales a few years back before the E3 existed and they were all standard finger buttons, more recently I tried John Powell's (from Tubalate etc) Adams but can't remember what buttons his had. My Virtuoso had the standard mother of pearl that Paul was doing at the time on the same valve group.
    The ease of production and large slots for lipping in tune without so many alternate fingerlings or the weight of a trigger on Johns Adams was stunning....... I'm tempted to go over to Holland and try a few variables around a compact set of valves if Miel has any around still....
    cheers
    Current Euphs:
    Besson Prestige (German)
    York Eminence
    Boosey & Hawkes Sovereign (Round Stamp/ Globe)
    Boosey & Hawkes Imperial
    Plus an attic of old classics in various states of repair!

    Previous Euphs:

    Geneva Symphony
    Wilson 2900 with Eminence leadpipe
    Sterling Virtuoso (300 mm heavy red brass bell)
    Cortios 167 II

    'Gob Iron': Doug Elliott Euph 105 I 9s (plus a few others!)


  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Sacramento, CA area
    Posts
    184
    All this collective knowledge of horn specs is great. But I find myself getting a little lost in the posts. Would someone pull together the brands and models, and create a quick reference table with these valve spacing spans? Then maybe that can live somewhere on this forum (like the mouthpiece comparison charts) where it can be accessed by everybody. Just a thought....
    - Sara
    Baritone - 3 Valve, Compensating, JinBao JBBR1240

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
    Posts
    3,262
    Dave has been updating his second post in this thread with all the measured spacings.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton Brandon Jones sig mpc
    YEP-641S (on long-term loan to grandson)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    Russian Christmas Music (Alfred Reed)
    El Cumbanchero (Rafael Hernández) cell phone video

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by ydave View Post
    Hello all
    very surprised a 2900 is 6.67 and when an Adams is 6.6-6.7
    i expected Willsons to be narrower spaced
    Keep in mind that Willson used to (a LONG time ago) use Bauerfeind valves. When Willson started making their own valve clusters they likely had to keep a lot of the same dimensions as the Bauerfeind in order to not have to change a lot of their other tooling. And then Adams purchased Bauerfeind alltogether - so it makes sense that at least the most significant external dimensions match.
    --
    Barry

  10. These measurements differ from some reported earlier, but they were made carefully, using a metric caliper spanning all three valve stems, then subtracting the diameter of one valve stem:

    Hirsbrunner 479: 66.02mm
    Adams E1: 66.27mm
    1974 Besson Imperial: 64.39mm
    San Jose Wind Symphony (on leave 2020)
    San Francisco Brass Band
    Mission Peak Brass Band
    -------------------------------
    Adams E1 Custom .5mm
    Hirsbrunner Exclusiv 479
    Besson 2056-2, 955, 982, Imperial Euphonium & Prototype BBb helicon

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