Euphonium Valve Spacing / Span

[daruby]

Hi all,

I have two data points. Not surprisingly, since Adams horns use Bauerfeind valves as does my 11 year old Sterling, they are both virtually the same, center to center.

• Adams E3 with prototype top-sprung valves: 6.7-6.8cm
• Sterling Virtuoso with Bauerfeind valves: 6.7-6.8cm

These are approx. since it was done using a metric ruler and Mark One eyeball.

Doug

[bbocaner]

It doesn't surprise me that Willson is the same as Adams and Sterling since there is some shared heritage between Willson and Bauerfeind as well. I am surprised that the Hirsbrunner on the list is different, though.

[Hiramdiaz1]

I just checked, rechecked, checked the instructions again... on my Shires Q41 I got 6.7cm.

[S-euph]

I just checked, rechecked, checked the instructions again... on my Shires Q41 I got 6.7cm.

Hiram, is your Giddings mouthpiece going to be available as a signature model?

[Hiramdiaz1]

Yes! Soon!

[Xfoontes]

Yay!!!! Do you know the specs by any chance?

[miketeachesclass]

I measured the following:

Adams E3: 6.8CM
Adams E3 with custom short valve set: 6.7CM
Geneva GvL Cardinal: 6.4CM
Besson New Standard (medium shank): 6.45CM
Willson 2060TA: 6.7CM

[notaverygoodname]

Hey, can I help? I have some terrible instruments that roughly equate to Euphoniums. Maybe it's helpful for some historical context.

center to center
1947 Conn 20-I Short Action : 5.9 cm
1948 Pan American : 5.5 cm

Soviet rotary things in 9' Bb : 4.8cm
"Maestro" Rotary Euphonium : 5.3cm to 3rd, 7.9cm to 4th

British Standard Baritone Horn : 5.4cm

Tenor Sousaphone (yes, that one) : 6.5cm

*edit*
1955 Trombonium : 5.3cm
Nuvo jHorn : 5.4cm

[ydave]

Hello all
very surprised a 2900 is 6.67 and when an Adams is 6.6-6.7
i expected Willsons to be narrower spaced
mostly because Willson are the fastest most consistent valves I've ever used and the only reason I sold my Sterling was that i never got used to its Beufiend valves feeling so large. Probably just what suits me personally kind of thing and totally different to my Round Stamp. The only reason i haven't bought an Adams (yet) is the beufiend valve block
So to me the next logical question is how far do they depress......
ive written up quite a few dimensions on valves of my old instruments, ill look the up when im home next.
cheers

[davewerden]

...very surprised a 2900 is 6.67 and when an Adams is 6.6-6.7
i expected Willsons to be narrower spaced, mostly because Willson are the fastest most consistent valves I've ever used...

Here's a thought. I wonder if the valve finger buttons could make a difference in feel. On MY Adams I have the gemstone inserts, and the style of insert is concave. Because of the "dip" they tend to make me want to keep my fingers centered (which I like anyway). But Adams horns come standard with a convex metal cap. If you used the standard cap, your 1st and 3rd fingers could site slightly inset with no problem, I think, which would reduce your finger span. Did you try an Adams with the standard caps?

Of course, there are other reasons the Willson valves could feel lighter - they might actually weigh less! I have not checked. If they are not stainless steel they might be lighter. Or if the SS thickness is less that would lower weight. Also, how long are the Willson pistons (not counting the stem)? If they were more compact somehow, that would reduce weight.

[ydave]

Hi Dave
yes there are quite a few more variables when you start thinking it thru...
your right I tried a few Adams out at Mr Tuba in Wales a few years back before the E3 existed and they were all standard finger buttons, more recently I tried John Powell's (from Tubalate etc) Adams but can't remember what buttons his had. My Virtuoso had the standard mother of pearl that Paul was doing at the time on the same valve group.
The ease of production and large slots for lipping in tune without so many alternate fingerlings or the weight of a trigger on Johns Adams was stunning....... I'm tempted to go over to Holland and try a few variables around a compact set of valves if Miel has any around still....
cheers

[Sara Hood]

All this collective knowledge of horn specs is great. But I find myself getting a little lost in the posts. Would someone pull together the brands and models, and create a quick reference table with these valve spacing spans? Then maybe that can live somewhere on this forum (like the mouthpiece comparison charts) where it can be accessed by everybody. Just a thought....
- Sara

[RickF]

Dave has been updating his second post in this thread with all the measured spacings.

[bbocaner]

Hello all
very surprised a 2900 is 6.67 and when an Adams is 6.6-6.7
i expected Willsons to be narrower spaced

Keep in mind that Willson used to (a LONG time ago) use Bauerfeind valves. When Willson started making their own valve clusters they likely had to keep a lot of the same dimensions as the Bauerfeind in order to not have to change a lot of their other tooling. And then Adams purchased Bauerfeind alltogether - so it makes sense that at least the most significant external dimensions match.

[SJWSEuph]

These measurements differ from some reported earlier, but they were made carefully, using a metric caliper spanning all three valve stems, then subtracting the diameter of one valve stem:

Hirsbrunner 479: 66.02mm
Adams E1: 66.27mm
1974 Besson Imperial: 64.39mm