Beginner Question - Should I get my horn washed at a shop?

[ann reid]

I bought a used horn just before Labor Day, from a very reputable dealer, and I’ve practiced an hour every day since I’ve had it.
I’m especially pleased with the fact that until about a week ago, I was able to produce a pretty solid tone for a beginner of about 8 months. Around a week ago, my tone started to get slightly thinner, insecure, and unstable. I had worked as usual on my lesson material, and wasn’t able to come anywhere near my own expectations at my lesson.
My teacher thought it was just an off day for me and was unconcerned but I can’t help thinking there’s something wrong beyond that, so I took the valves apart and found quite a bit of stuff, some black and some otherwise in them. I also shook the horn upside down, which I do once in a while to clear water, and it sounded more like it had previously then reverted to the most recent problem.
The horn looks as though it was VERY lightly used before I bought it, maybe a demo?, and I know nothing about it’s prior owner.
I’m considering having it washed at a local shop. Good idea? I just can’t accept the idea that I’d made totally steady progress and then began to mess up as badly as I am now.
Thank you for any thoughts!

[RickF]

Ann, it’s a good idea to have your horn professionally cleaned every so often. I take my horn to the shop every other year to have it ultrasonically cleaned and valve alignment checked. The felts, corks, rubber spacers on valves can get worn after some time and throw off valve alignment some. Also, he changes corks on the water keys if needed. I clean my horn other times using the QHR (quick horn rinse & suddser).

[ghmerrill]

What Rick says is absolutely correct. Given that you don't have any experience with maintenance and repair at this point, taking it to someone to check it out is a good idea. However, if your teacher is a euphonium player, then he/she should be able to tell pretty quickly if it's leaking or the valves seem to be misaligned. Here are a couple of other thoughts ...

Very often, the source of a leak on a brass instrument is in the water valve (or in one or more of them if there is more than one). Try just applying some pressure to your water valve by squeezing it closed as you blow problematic notes and see if that affects the problem. Try this on each water valve. The little corks on these need to be replaced periodically since they wear and start to leak air. When that happens, your tone will get "breathy" or "buzzy".

You don't say what the brand of the instrument is. If it's one of the Chinese clones (such as the Mack Brass euph or Wessex tuba that I have), I have to say that I haven't encountered one of those yet where the valve corks/felts weren't absolutely crappy and needed virtually immediate replacement (along with ensuring that the valves were correctly aligned as part of the replacement).

There are some other possibilities, but you should just get someone experienced to look at it since you don't (yet) know what to look for.

[davewerden]

Here's a shot in the dark. Are you missing any accessory items from your case? I once had a bottle of valve oil find its way down the bell and partway around the first curve. The horn played, but it was stuffy and it of time. Unfortunately, this happened on the day I played at the state solo contest my junior year!

[tbonesullivan]

8 months is definitely enough time for crud to build up inside of a horn, particularly in the lead pipe. Are you diligent about brushing your teeth at some point between eating and practicing? Food particles are the bane of instrument cleanliness. They get in there and contribute to the growth of "crud". I'm mostly a trombone player, and "crud" can build up in less than a month.

I would recommend looking into one of the "low brass care" kits, which usually comes with a valve casing brush, rubberized snake, and other things for cleaning. Also the Brass Saver all plastic snake brushes are very nice as well. As they are all plastic there is no way they can scratch the inside of the horn.

I would say have your teacher give you some pointers on scrubbing out the inside of the horn. It's really something that is good to learn how to do yourself, IMHO. Just remember that the harshest thing you should use chemical wise is dish detergent. Might be a good idea to do it in a bath tub as well.

[davewerden]

I use Herco Spitballs once a week and it really helps keep the airways clean.

[vscotello]

Donut

Here's a shot in the dark. Are you missing any accessory items from your case? I once had a bottle of valve oil find its way down the bell and partway around the first curve. The horn played, but it was stuffy and it of time. Unfortunately, this happened on the day I played at the state solo contest my junior year!

Many years ago, I had a stuffy sound and my band director could not figure out what was wrong. We finally found a donut in the horn.

[Wendy Willson]

8 months is definitely enough time for crud to build up inside of a horn, particularly in the lead pipe. Are you diligent about brushing your teeth at some point between eating and practicing? Food particles are the bane of instrument cleanliness. They get in there and contribute to the growth of "crud". I'm mostly a trombone player, and "crud" can build up in less than a month.

I would recommend looking into one of the "low brass care" kits, which usually comes with a valve casing brush, rubberized snake, and other things for cleaning. Also the Brass Saver all plastic snake brushes are very nice as well. As they are all plastic there is no way they can scratch the inside of the horn.

I would say have your teacher give you some pointers on scrubbing out the inside of the horn. It's really something that is good to learn how to do yourself, IMHO. Just remember that the harshest thing you should use chemical wise is dish detergent. Might be a good idea to do it in a bath tub as well.

Not sure if this si right place to ask, but what size spit balls do you use for your Euphonium? I would like to give some a try! Thanks!

[RickF]

Herco Spitballs for large bore instruments. See this post by Doug for more info with link:

http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthr...481#post123481
...

Note: When using Herco Spitballs, firstly remove your MTS (main tuning slide), insert a spitball into your lead-pipe then push it down with a pencil a few inches. Then insert your mouthpiece, put one hand with a rag or paper towel under your MTS tubing to catch the ball, hold down all 4 valves then BLOW thru your mpc as hard as you can.

[tonewheeler]

I agree above with the above. However you can always clean it yourself:
See below:
https://youtu.be/a2Ki5dZ6oPw

[daruby]

Even though I work religiously to keep my horns clean, I also use a professional service to clean them every couple of years, or so. The Herco Spitballs, various cleaning swabs, and my Quick Horn Rinse all do a good job, getting rid of the "green stuff" and generally keeping the horn clean, but they do not deal with the gradual buildup of calcium deposits on valves and tubes, nor do they adequately clean out construction residue (polishing dust, etc.). Plus, as an amateur, I do not have the means to correct solder blobs, make minor repairs, or insure perfect valve alignment that a professional technician does.

Since I have reduced my collection to just three horns (Sterling Virtuoso euphonium and baritone and Adams E3 euphonium), I decided to splurge this winter and all three have been treated to the professional chem clean service at Osmun Music in Acton, MA. Jim Engele and Jim Becker at Osmun's do a fantastic job, but the service is pretty expensive ($259 for a 4 valve compensating horn). My 11 year old Sterling euph needed some solder repairs in addition to cleaning and my 2 1/2 year old Adams had never been professionally cleaned since new so some of the construction residue (polish compound etc.) was still in its innards. I supplied valve felts and guides as necessary since I maintain a supply. I also had all three horns checked for valve alignment upon re-assembly.

Voila! Three like new horns for the New Year. Happy New Year all!

Doug

[graeme]

Even though I work religiously to keep my horns clean, I also use a professional service to clean them every couple of years, or so. The Herco Spitballs, various cleaning swabs, and my Quick Horn Rinse all do a good job, getting rid of the "green stuff" and generally keeping the horn clean, but they do not deal with the gradual buildup of calcium deposits on valves and tubes, nor do they adequately clean out construction residue (polishing dust, etc.). Plus, as an amateur, I do not have the means to correct solder blobs, make minor repairs, or insure perfect valve alignment that a professional technician does.

Since I have reduced my collection to just three horns (Sterling Virtuoso euphonium and baritone and Adams E3 euphonium), I decided to splurge this winter and all three have been treated to the professional chem clean service at Osmun Music in Acton, MA. Jim Engele and Jim Becker at Osmun's do a fantastic job, but the service is pretty expensive ($259 for a 4 valve compensating horn). My 11 year old Sterling euph needed some solder repairs in addition to cleaning and my 2 1/2 year old Adams had never been professionally cleaned since new so some of the construction residue (polish compound etc.) was still in its innards. I supplied valve felts and guides as necessary since I maintain a supply. I also had all three horns checked for valve alignment upon re-assembly.

Voila! Three like new horns for the New Year. Happy New Year all!

Doug

Hi Doug. The quick horn rinse seems to be available for large bore (euphoniums) and small bore (cornets) do you need to buy both or just an extra adaptor if you want to clean both types of instrument. I get no reply when I have tried asking suppliers

[daruby]

Hi Doug. The quick horn rinse seems to be available for large bore (euphoniums) and small bore (cornets) do you need to buy both or just an extra adaptor if you want to clean both types of instrument. I get no reply when I have tried asking suppliers

Graeme,

The gentleman (Bob Ricker) who invented and sold the QHR passed away a couple of years ago. While is Euphonium Horn Strap has been picked up by someone else, I am not aware that anyone has come out with a QHR equivalent. Back in the day, the difference between small bore and large bore was just the adapter from the body of the QHR to the receiver of the instrument.

Doug

[graeme]

[QUOTE=daruby;153750]Graeme,

The gentleman (Bob Ricker) who invented and sold the QHR passed away a couple of years ago. While is Euphonium Horn Strap has been picked up by someone else, I am not aware that anyone has come out with a QHR equivalent. Back in the day, the difference between small bore and large bore was just the adapter from the body of the QHR to the receiver of the instrument.

Thanks Doug. A few days ago they were on Amazon and I put my question to the company selling them but as I said got no reply, I see today that they have been removed from Amazon. Maybe I can find something similar,

[tbonesullivan]

Who is running the quick horn rinse website then? Did it get sold to someone else? I wasn't aware the founder had died, but one of the first things I did was order the hand strap from this website, and it came in a week.

http://stores.quickhornrinse.com/