Best Euph for Jazz Playing

[dsurkin]

[snip] I know at my age that the train has definitely left the station, and I will be no jazz phenom, but I do try to get a little better at improv occasionally. [snip]

Never too old to learn, John! My wife, with a classical background, started studying jazz piano when she was [age redacted].

For your amusement, that old saw "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" is absolutely wrong. Jazz (see my avatar) is approaching 11, and still learns.

[Davidus1]

I read this comment a while back and meant to post a brief reply. I never played trombone growing up, it wasn't until later in life that I picked it up. A lot of my trombone playing is with orchestras and brass quintets. But, I have spent a good amount of time playing trombone in big bands, too. I love playing big band ballads. I have played lead mostly, although I do not improvise. I totally missed that lesson in life growing up, no big bands or jazz in any of the schools I went to, plus I only played baritone/euphonium. So, I have messed around a little using Band in a Box. I was going to suggest this, as a way to sort of ease in and get your legs with the world of jazz. I think there is something else called Garage Band or something like that. With these programs, you can enter in chords and pick from many different types of accompaniments and instruments. You need some MIDI gear usually or sound modules. I have a Yamaha Disklavier piano (with MIDI capability) and a Yamaha MU50 Tone Generator. And some nice speakers. Once set up, you can loop your music to play endless jazz solos in any key, tempo, style, etc. you want. This truly is a good way, along with listening to as much jazz as is humanly possible, to get started. If you are fortunate to be around where there are some community big bands (sometimes offshoots of community bands), many times they tolerate folks who are trying to get their jazz chops going. I know at my age that the train has definitely left the station, and I will be no jazz phenom, but I do try to get a little better at improv occasionally. And it is kind of fun when it is not totally humiliating.

Hey, thanks John. I appreciate you sharing your experiences. I've heard of Band in a Box and Garage band but haven't used them. I have some Aebersold CDs that I plan to use but may check out those programs that you mention. Sounds like a great way to wade into the water! Much appreciated.

[John Morgan]

Never too old to learn, John! My wife, with a classical background, started studying jazz piano when she was [age redacted].

For your amusement, that old saw "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" is absolutely wrong. Jazz (see my avatar) is approaching 11, and still learns.

I will keep all of that in mind. I enjoyed your wife's age. I am still learning new solos to this day. And working on multiphonics which my band director wants me to do for some reason (I think for the concerts we do for kids). And I can actually take a half way (maybe quarter way) decent improv solo on tunes like "When the Saints Go Marching In" without wanting to hide my face (too much). So there is indeed hope. I wish I had done some of that when I was very young and starting out. I am happy to see that in the schools around where I live, they all have big bands and kids getting into jazz. This is very good.

[John Morgan]

Hey, thanks John. I appreciate you sharing your experiences. I've heard of Band in a Box and Garage band but haven't used them. I have some Aebersold CDs that I plan to use but may check out those programs that you mention. Sounds like a great way to wade into the water! Much appreciated.

Yeah, the Aebersold stuff is really good. I actually considered moving to his neck of the woods where he has his jazz music camps. I think around northern Kentucky or southern Indiana. Louisville comes to mind. That was during one of our many "I'm tired of living here, let's move somewhere else" adventures. He put out a ton of CDs. And books. And his CDs allow you to play along. Kind of like Band in a Box, except with Band in a Box, you can change things (keys, tempo, instruments, style, etc.). And make up your own stuff. What I did was get a couple or three of the monstrous fake books, then entered the pieces I wanted to play and improv on into Band in a Box (basically the chords to the piece) and picked a style, and off you go. Put the program on loop and play as many solos over and over as you like until your wife shoots herself or you go terminally nuts. Every once in a while, I would crank out something that sounded better than a junior high player (and some of those little guys are actually pretty good).

[Snorlax]

I attended one of the Aebersold summer camps at age 62 and had a blast. Jamey Aebersold lives in New Albany, IN...not far from Louisville and about 90 minutes from me. The camp was on the Univ. of Louisville campus. As it turned out the guy who coached my combo regularly played in NY with a guy from the 1969 NJ All-state Band of which I was a member! Also enjoyed the company of Dan Haerle, who played in TubaJazz with Harvey. Euphonium blends great with alto or tenor sax, BTW. One thing I didn't do, however, was find a bari sax player to do a Brookmeyer-Mulligan style group.
I recommend the Aebersold camps highly--everyone is positive and encouraging, and they will place you in a group that challenges without intimidation. The amount of knowledge one can absorb is virtually unlimited, and I particularly enjoyed the trombone faculty who auditioned me.

On an unrelated matter, if anyone ever goes to Louisville, a visit to the Louisville Slugger Bat Museum is a MUST, and the "Please and Thank You" coffeehouse is superb.

[John Morgan]

I attended one of the Aebersold summer camps at age 62 and had a blast. Jamey Aebersold lives in New Albany, IN...not far from Louisville and about 90 minutes from me. The camp was on the Univ. of Louisville campus. As it turned out the guy who coached my combo regularly played in NY with a guy from the 1969 NJ All-state Band of which I was a member! Also enjoyed the company of Dan Haerle, who played in TubaJazz with Harvey. Euphonium blends great with alto or tenor sax, BTW. One thing I didn't do, however, was find a bari sax player to do a Brookmeyer-Mulligan style group.
I recommend the Aebersold camps highly--everyone is positive and encouraging, and they will place you in a group that challenges without intimidation. The amount of knowledge one can absorb is virtually unlimited, and I particularly enjoyed the trombone faculty who auditioned me.

On an unrelated matter, if anyone ever goes to Louisville, a visit to the Louisville Slugger Bat Museum is a MUST, and the "Please and Thank You" coffeehouse is superb.

Jim,

Pretty much what I have heard from everyone who has attended. When we went there looking for out next place to live (Lousiville), it was not quite when the camps happened, so I did not get to attend, but wanted to. So you played euphonium at the camp? Were you alone in that choice or other euphonium players? If I had went there, I guess I was planning on playing trombone since I already had quite a bit of time playing it in big bands, just never improvising.

[John Morgan]

….On an unrelated matter, if anyone ever goes to Louisville, a visit to the Louisville Slugger Bat Museum is a MUST, and the "Please and Thank You" coffeehouse is superb.

My wife and I stayed in Louisville back around 2001 in our 5th wheel, scouting out the country for our next landing spot. Your mention of things to see and do reminded me that we really wanted to go take a look at Churchill Downs, site of the annual Kentucky Derby. That place always looked fabulous on TV and the people there were highly interesting, especially the ladies with their big hats. I hope I offend no one, but we were underwhelmed when we drove to the track to have a look. Granted, nothing was going on at the time we were there, but it looked to me, nothing at all like it was shown on TV. It was sort of grey and drab, and if I remember correctly, it sat in sort of a seedy part of town. I should have stayed away and kept my TV memories. Or maybe I just saw it on a bad day, could be.

[Davidus1]

Yeah, the Aebersold stuff is really good. I actually considered moving to his neck of the woods where he has his jazz music camps. I think around northern Kentucky or southern Indiana. Louisville comes to mind. That was during one of our many "I'm tired of living here, let's move somewhere else" adventures. He put out a ton of CDs. And books. And his CDs allow you to play along. Kind of like Band in a Box, except with Band in a Box, you can change things (keys, tempo, instruments, style, etc.). And make up your own stuff. What I did was get a couple or three of the monstrous fake books, then entered the pieces I wanted to play and improv on into Band in a Box (basically the chords to the piece) and picked a style, and off you go. Put the program on loop and play as many solos over and over as you like until your wife shoots herself or you go terminally nuts. Every once in a while, I would crank out something that sounded better than a junior high player (and some of those little guys are actually pretty good).

HaHa.....I think I already drive my wife crazy with the current practice. That would only add to it. She is actually very supportive and I'm fortunate in that regard.

[Davidus1]

I attended one of the Aebersold summer camps at age 62 and had a blast. Jamey Aebersold lives in New Albany, IN...not far from Louisville and about 90 minutes from me. The camp was on the Univ. of Louisville campus. As it turned out the guy who coached my combo regularly played in NY with a guy from the 1969 NJ All-state Band of which I was a member! Also enjoyed the company of Dan Haerle, who played in TubaJazz with Harvey. Euphonium blends great with alto or tenor sax, BTW. One thing I didn't do, however, was find a bari sax player to do a Brookmeyer-Mulligan style group.
I recommend the Aebersold camps highly--everyone is positive and encouraging, and they will place you in a group that challenges without intimidation. The amount of knowledge one can absorb is virtually unlimited, and I particularly enjoyed the trombone faculty who auditioned me.

On an unrelated matter, if anyone ever goes to Louisville, a visit to the Louisville Slugger Bat Museum is a MUST, and the "Please and Thank You" coffeehouse is superb.

Love the Louisville slugger museum. I used to work for a company headquartered in Louisville and traveled there frequently. Enjoyed the many many places to eat. Tremendous place called "toast" on market st. that had the best breakfasts.

Did you go to the Aebersold camp on Euphonium? or trombone? Must have been a great experience.

[Snorlax]

I went with only my Yamaha 321, and everyone was more than receptive. I was the only euphonium in
the camp for my session, but they told me I was far from the first euphonium to have participated.
Dan Haerle, of course, was well familiar with the euphonium.
(I'm only a few lessons ahead of my junior high/highschool students on trombone)
Everyone was familiar with Rich Matteson, naturally, and (thankfully) didn't fllinch when I tried to imitate
Chet Baker or Bob Brookmeyer rather than Rich.

As to the race track, John, your assessment is accurate. I made the mistake of going down there
from Indiana University for the 1971 race. It was miserable in the infield--drunks were barfing all over
and it was impossible to see the race--all two minutes of it.

[BrassedOn]

LTTP,
RM played on the Yamaha 321s. He also had an (at the time custom) additional main slide with a 5th rotor to make other low notes possible and for tuning combinations (I don’t recall, but I think a flat whole step). You can buy these now, aftermarket.

I had met RM years ago when he was at University of North Florida. He had years ago (at that time) played a large rotary euphonium (b&s or miraphone). He of course was very active as a clinician. He said at the time, that in part, his switch to the Yamaha 321 was pragmatic. He thought if his horn was ever lost or damaged during travel, if was very likely the school he was visiting would have a Yamaha he could borrow.

His mouthpiece was a custom Warburton, and I got try his spare duplicate. It was Quite a deep funnel, bored out backbore. Perhaps Warburton’s shop still has the specs. RM HAD HUGE AIR CAPACITY and AIR SPEED, so I don’t think that piece is for everybody.

Do Check out the duet Album with John Allred (also a major trombonist),who at the time was on a Conn constellation or 30 I? But plays since then also on a Yam 321s.
“Pardon our dust, we’re making changes”

And John’s solo album “In the beginning” with “Blues for RM”, John now on his Yamaha. And a duet with Betty O’Hara on “stomping at the savoy” with both of them on DOUBLEBELL EUPHONIUMS! That’s 4 bells!


Can you play jazz on other than 321? Of course! Partly depends on your tone concept for jazz. Whether playing lead, or ballad, or whatever. I’ve jazzed on Hirsbrunner, Miraphone, Yam 321, Besson sovereign, as well as valve trombone, and aBlessing M200,which is a kind of flugabone, basically a tight wrapped valve trombone. 321 and small bore Conns seemed better for lead playing, that’s physics, but you can play jazz on anything.

[hyperbolica]

Slide Hampton played a large tenor much or all of his career. I've known some bass players who can really swing, but it's more of a novelty than anything.

One thing you might check out is a marching trombone/flugabone/baritone/euph for jazz. Something like a King 1130 or 1124, or there are some Chinese options being made now. Some people use these for bass trumpet parts, when needed. It has a different look, and I think they are gaining a lot of popularity. I personally like the Olds compact valve trombone. It is small and great for traveling, plus the bore is slightly larger (515 vs 500) and the bell is slightly smaller (8 vs 8.5).

Schagerl has some fantastically expensive rotary instruments https://schagerl.com/meisterinstrume...tikal/?lang=en


https://[url]https://www.youtube.com...[/url] -- not really jazz, and not really euphonium, but popular music on tenor valved instruments... so kinda relevant... sorta.

[massmanute]

There were a lot of comments in this thread about a compensating euphonium having a sound that is too big (or broad or whatever) to be a good fit for a jazz band. What about a British style compensating baritone horn? Could that be a good fit sound-wise? Would the tone be bright/small enough to work for jazz? Would it sound too much like a trombone? Even if it did, who cares?

Here's one sold by Wessex: https://us.wessex-tubas.com/collecti...-4-valve-br144

By the way, I'm not a jazz player, but I have listened to jazz since I was a teenager and would like to get into playing jazz some day. (More "by the way", I knew a guy who played sax, and he said that in his opinion jazz is more fun to play than to listen too... kind of like baseball is more fun to play than to watch, though I do like watching baseball and listening to jazz, preferably not at the same time.)

[JTJ]

I've heard a British baritone played in small group jazz by a really fine player, and it worked very well indeed. There are just not many of those horns around and even fewer really good jazz players who would have an interest in playing one seriously.