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Thread: Best Euph for Jazz Playing

  1. #11
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    I've not played a "medium shank" Euphonium. Where does the sound fall compared to large or small shank horns? Would it be too large a sound for jazz? I've been a musician for over 40 years and have listened to jazz since I was 12 years old but have never worked on "improvisation". I played professionally in the Army (mostly tuba and bass guitar/upright bass) and 1 year is a semi-professional orchestra but left "professional" playing around 1998 and play purely for enjoyment since. I took several years away from playing while raising my two sons. At this point I will admit I'm self conscious about "putting myself out there" improvising. I'm a decent player but all past experience has either been classical type music or as a section player in either rhythm section or trombone section and the beginning steps of improvisation will be humbling............ Anyone been there?
    John 3:16

    Yamaha YSL-630 Trombone
    Conn 15I Euphonium
    Mack Brass Euphonium
    Conn Victor 5H Trombone
    Yamaha 354 Trombone
    Mack Brass 200S BBb Tuba

  2. Quote Originally Posted by Davidus1 View Post
    I've not played a "medium shank" Euphonium. Where does the sound fall compared to large or small shank horns? Would it be too large a sound for jazz?
    To be honest, in general, the mouthpiece will be a pretty significant determining factor. When I play a Yamaha 321 with a Wick 4AY, I sound pretty "big" and would not feel bad about playing in any large symphonic group short of a brass band. OTOH, I used to have a Bach 6 1/2AL large shank, whose inner backbore dimensions are identical with the same tenor shank mouthpiece. I played my Besson 967 and had amazing range and facility, but the tone was definitely punchier. I think there is no issue using a medium shank horn. If it is an older Besson (New Standard) or Willson 2900, the bell size is smaller than the newer horns and the choice of mouthpiece and how you approach the horn will be a bigger determining factor.
    Sterling Virtuoso 1052HS & Adams E3 Prototype 0.70 Top Sprung valves
    Sterling Virtuoso 1050HS baritone & Conn 24I/25I euphonium
    New England Brass Band/Metropolitan Wind Symphony
    Winchendon Winds/Townsend Military Band

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by daruby View Post
    To be honest, in general, the mouthpiece will be a pretty significant determining factor. When I play a Yamaha 321 with a Wick 4AY, I sound pretty "big" and would not feel bad about playing in any large symphonic group short of a brass band. OTOH, I used to have a Bach 6 1/2AL large shank, whose inner backbore dimensions are identical with the same tenor shank mouthpiece. I played my Besson 967 and had amazing range and facility, but the tone was definitely punchier. I think there is no issue using a medium shank horn. If it is an older Besson (New Standard) or Willson 2900, the bell size is smaller than the newer horns and the choice of mouthpiece and how you approach the horn will be a bigger determining factor.
    Thanks Doug. I experimented with everything from a 6.5 AL up to small 11C piece and it really did significantly change the sound. Makes sense. Thank you.
    John 3:16

    Yamaha YSL-630 Trombone
    Conn 15I Euphonium
    Mack Brass Euphonium
    Conn Victor 5H Trombone
    Yamaha 354 Trombone
    Mack Brass 200S BBb Tuba

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by davewerden View Post
    Yes, I would agree that something like a 321 is a good choice for jazz....

    .Our situation is not much different from the world of jazz trombone. I can't think of a jazz trombonist who used/uses a symphony tenor.
    I played with a group called Pink Martini while living in Spokane, Washington some while back. The fellow who played trombone in that group, played a symphony sized trombone with F attachment, and I thought at the time how odd that was. I looked them up today and their trombone player is Robert Taylor, and he "may" be the same trombone player from way back when. And the fellow I played with, definitely was playing some jazz and some sort of pop stuff. They had a version of Bolero that was really cool.

    And of course you have Chris Brubeck who is a wonderful jazz player on his bass trombone. And many other jazz bass trombone players. But, those aren't symphony tenors.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Wessex TE-360 Bombino Eb Tuba
    Rapid City New Horizons & Municipal Bands (Euphonium)
    Black Hills Symphony Orchestra (Bass Trombone), Powder River Symphony, Gillette, WY (Tenor Trombone)
    Black Hills Brass Quintet (Tuba)

  5. #15
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    More on Robert Taylor and Pink Martini: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YERviIHG4mU Go to 31:25 for a trombone solo on a big bore tenor. And yes, this is the same fellow I played with about 15 years ago. He is a good classical trombone player too, former principal in the San Antonio Symphony and now asst. principal in the Oregon Symphony.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Wessex TE-360 Bombino Eb Tuba
    Rapid City New Horizons & Municipal Bands (Euphonium)
    Black Hills Symphony Orchestra (Bass Trombone), Powder River Symphony, Gillette, WY (Tenor Trombone)
    Black Hills Brass Quintet (Tuba)

  6. #16
    Back when I played lead trombone in the CG jazz ensemble I was using a symphony tenor. I could do the style just fine, although I did not ad lib. But I thought the horn did not sound quite right, even with the 6-1/2AL I used then.

    Mr. Taylor sound just fine, but with a mute it's hard to gauge sound. However, I don't think he was playing in the range I tend to think of for jazz trombone. Those guys often stay at top range so the partials are nice and close and very little slide movement is required as they do some terrific stuff. Check out some of the YouTube clips with transcriptions of the solos. Here is one of Watrous:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em-BU24HP2Y

    Or Carl Fontana (especially the 2nd half):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAMiVW9jgrA

    Frank Rosolino:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hZSgPTQD20

    Of course there are many who use the "normal" range more, too.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams E3, Denis Wick 4AL (classic)
    Instructor of Euphonium and Tuba
    Twitter: davewerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    YouTube: dwerden
    Owner of TubaEuph.com, DWerden.com

  7. #17
    crazy thought... Look at the wessex tornister euph. rotary valves, incredibly quick and short action. It has a tone that would good for jazz, it's a scream to play.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU1SWJyf_cM

  8. #18
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    The ultimate Bill Watrous improv solo starting at about 1:43 or so of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_qDQTlZ1oE

    First note would be, starting from tuning note Bb, go up to Eb, then go up another octave to Eb above high Bb, then go up another octave to Eb. And he "starts" on that note. This had the trombone world going "gaga" when he played it, and it is still to this day a remarkable solo.

    This guy was about the smoothest player ever and nobody, but perhaps Dick Nash, could play ballads better or sweeter. Too bad he is now gone. RIP Bill Watrous.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Wessex TE-360 Bombino Eb Tuba
    Rapid City New Horizons & Municipal Bands (Euphonium)
    Black Hills Symphony Orchestra (Bass Trombone), Powder River Symphony, Gillette, WY (Tenor Trombone)
    Black Hills Brass Quintet (Tuba)

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Leadwood, MO
    Posts
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Morgan View Post
    More on Robert Taylor and Pink Martini: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YERviIHG4mU Go to 31:25 for a trombone solo on a big bore tenor. And yes, this is the same fellow I played with about 15 years ago. He is a good classical trombone player too, former principal in the San Antonio Symphony and now asst. principal in the Oregon Symphony.
    Nice! Thanks for sharing.
    John 3:16

    Yamaha YSL-630 Trombone
    Conn 15I Euphonium
    Mack Brass Euphonium
    Conn Victor 5H Trombone
    Yamaha 354 Trombone
    Mack Brass 200S BBb Tuba

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Leadwood, MO
    Posts
    519
    Quote Originally Posted by davewerden View Post
    Back when I played lead trombone in the CG jazz ensemble I was using a symphony tenor. I could do the style just fine, although I did not ad lib. But I thought the horn did not sound quite right, even with the 6-1/2AL I used then.

    Mr. Taylor sound just fine, but with a mute it's hard to gauge sound. However, I don't think he was playing in the range I tend to think of for jazz trombone. Those guys often stay at top range so the partials are nice and close and very little slide movement is required as they do some terrific stuff. Check out some of the YouTube clips with transcriptions of the solos. Here is one of Watrous:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em-BU24HP2Y

    Or Carl Fontana (especially the 2nd half):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAMiVW9jgrA

    Frank Rosolino:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hZSgPTQD20

    Of course there are many who use the "normal" range more, too.
    Man, it would be nice to have the range and technique of those guys. Watrous, in the Michael Davis interview, talked about being in a hotel room in Denver (I think) when they went to the big Gibson jazz party. Watrous, Fontana and Rosolino were in the hotel room between sets and were trading blues licks. I enjoyed hearing that they were friends and supportive of one another. Incredible players. Watrous mentioned that he seldom went much past 3rd position often when playing fast and in the upper range.
    John 3:16

    Yamaha YSL-630 Trombone
    Conn 15I Euphonium
    Mack Brass Euphonium
    Conn Victor 5H Trombone
    Yamaha 354 Trombone
    Mack Brass 200S BBb Tuba

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