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Thread: Best Euph for Jazz Playing

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Leadwood, MO
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58mark View Post
    crazy thought... Look at the wessex tornister euph. rotary valves, incredibly quick and short action. It has a tone that would good for jazz, it's a scream to play.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU1SWJyf_cM
    I'd like to get a chance to play that and other Wessex horns. My wife, son and I are heading to Chicago this fall and I may see if I can get an appointment to stop by the Wessex location there.
    John 3:16

    Yamaha YSL-630 Trombone
    Conn 15I Euphonium
    Mack Brass Euphonium
    Conn Victor 5H Trombone
    Yamaha 354 Trombone
    Mack Brass 200S BBb Tuba

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by John Morgan View Post
    The ultimate Bill Watrous improv solo starting at about 1:43 or so of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_qDQTlZ1oE

    First note would be, starting from tuning note Bb, go up to Eb, then go up another octave to Eb above high Bb, then go up another octave to Eb. And he "starts" on that note. This had the trombone world going "gaga" when he played it, and it is still to this day a remarkable solo.

    This guy was about the smoothest player ever and nobody, but perhaps Dick Nash, could play ballads better or sweeter. Too bad he is now gone. RIP Bill Watrous.
    He played that piece with our jazz group. He explained that he wanted the lead trumpet to be quite loud on his high F (Eb concert) so it would clear that he (Watrous) was coming in on the same pitch. Here is the live version, without benefit of any studio retakes or editing:

    https://youtu.be/eDVOgwbp_3c?t=206
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams E3, Denis Wick 4AL (classic)
    Instructor of Euphonium and Tuba
    Twitter: davewerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    YouTube: dwerden
    Owner of TubaEuph.com, DWerden.com

  3. #23
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    Apr 2014
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    Sturgis, South Dakota
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    934
    Quote Originally Posted by davewerden View Post
    He played that piece with our jazz group. He explained that he wanted the lead trumpet to be quite loud on his high F (Eb concert) so it would clear that he (Watrous) was coming in on the same pitch. Here is the live version, without benefit of any studio retakes or editing:

    https://youtu.be/eDVOgwbp_3c?t=206
    One amazing trombone player, indeed. Thanks for the link, Dave.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Wessex TE-360 Bombino Eb Tuba
    Rapid City New Horizons & Municipal Bands (Euphonium)
    Black Hills Symphony Orchestra (Bass Trombone), Powder River Symphony, Gillette, WY (Tenor Trombone)
    Black Hills Brass Quintet (Tuba)

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Leadwood, MO
    Posts
    516
    You may have seen this but I love watching Watrous, Fontana and Rosolino trade licks. In the background I believe is Al Grey with the orchestra.....he could easily have been up there with them trading licks too.

    link:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns6_-WthPX8
    John 3:16

    Yamaha YSL-630 Trombone
    Conn 15I Euphonium
    Mack Brass Euphonium
    Conn Victor 5H Trombone
    Yamaha 354 Trombone
    Mack Brass 200S BBb Tuba

  5. #25
    Thanks, Davidus1 - that was a fun clip to watch!

    Speaking of playing high (which they all did in the clip) here is the opening track from Tutti's Trombones: The Sweetest Sounds. At the end, Rosolino goes for a double-high F and darned near makes it!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEBM...ru3kbmOrBgQ_xL
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams E3, Denis Wick 4AL (classic)
    Instructor of Euphonium and Tuba
    Twitter: davewerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    YouTube: dwerden
    Owner of TubaEuph.com, DWerden.com

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Leadwood, MO
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    Quote Originally Posted by davewerden View Post
    Thanks, Davidus1 - that was a fun clip to watch!

    Speaking of playing high (which they all did in the clip) here is the opening track from Tutti's Trombones: The Sweetest Sounds. At the end, Rosolino goes for a double-high F and darned near makes it!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEBM...ru3kbmOrBgQ_xL
    Hey, thanks! I had not heard that one before. What a group of players!
    John 3:16

    Yamaha YSL-630 Trombone
    Conn 15I Euphonium
    Mack Brass Euphonium
    Conn Victor 5H Trombone
    Yamaha 354 Trombone
    Mack Brass 200S BBb Tuba

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
    Posts
    3,123
    Very impressive playing in these recordings. Wow! Thanks for sharing.

    Art Sarses, who I mentioned earlier, played a featured solo with our band several years ago (don’t remember the title) and the last note being played by first trumpet was a ‘D’ above high ‘C’. Art played a cadenza and then came up to match that high ‘D’ played by trumpet. Some of these artists are almost inhuman.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton Brandon Jones sig mpc
    YEP-641S (on long-term loan to grandson)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    When the Saints Go Marching In (arr. Mashima) at ACB Conference Ft. Lauderdale
    Cell phone video of : El Cumbanchero:

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis area
    Posts
    780
    Hi...
    I was fortunate enough to spend some quality time with Rich, courtesy of Harvey Phillips*, and would play some of Rich's stuff in my lessons.

    I do not like playing jazz or pop music on a large-bore compensating horn. For me, it's a matter of a more direct sound that I can manipulate
    and inflect more via vowel sounds in my mouth, so I do 90+ percent of my pop & jazz playing on a Yamaha 321. All the rock & jazz stuff on the
    Soundcloud are on a 321, and the concertos are on large-bore compensators. I think the highest note anywhere on the soundcloud is an A, and
    there are a bunch of notes around that area on some of the other tunes. Additionally, I find the long compensating pistons harder to push as fast
    as I might like to.

    I could make those notes when I had a Miraphone 5050 and a Demondrae mouthpiece, but I didn't like the sound. Additionally, my nickname
    "snorlax" reflects my inherent laziness and unwillingness to work one erg more than I have to. The notes in the upper register are easier to play and more appropriate to pop & jazz on a 321.

    Having said that, however, one thing I can't do is use a peashooter mouthpiece. The one I have used forever on my 321 started life as a Denis Wick 5,
    with surgery to drill out the throat and backbore. I just kept reaming until I could do what I wanted to do easily enough to suit me. On the compensating horns, I used a Wick 4 or equivalent. I simply have to have room to maneuver my lips inside a mouthpiece, and I can't do that on anything smaller that the 5 I use on my 321. I also like the larger throat & backbore that allows me to really move air through the instrument.

    [Rant]The only time I've ever caught any flak for using a 321 is inside the euphonium bubble, as I've mentioned before. A general audience just wants to hear the tune and doesn't care why I use a 321 instead of a Willson and a BB1. Only 2.58% of general-audience people know what a euphonium is.[/Rant]

    *I am eternally grateful to Harvey Phillips for encouraging me to do what I wanted to do on the euphonium, and having faith in me, regardless of what horn I played and regardless of what disparaging comments other "name players" might have made.
    Last edited by Snorlax; 08-25-2019 at 03:27 PM.
    Yamaha 642-II Neo, Wedge 103A/Wick 4AL
    Yamaha 321, Yamaha 621 Baritone
    Conn 50H trombone
    Blue P-bone
    www.soundcloud.com/jweuph

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Leadwood, MO
    Posts
    516
    Quote Originally Posted by Snorlax View Post
    Hi...
    I was fortunate enough to spend some quality time with Rich, courtesy of Harvey Phillips*, and would play some of Rich's stuff in my lessons.

    I do not like playing jazz or pop music on a large-bore compensating horn. For me, it's a matter of a more direct sound that I can manipulate
    and inflect more via vowel sounds in my mouth, so I do 90+ percent of my pop & jazz playing on a Yamaha 321. All the rock & jazz stuff on the
    Soundcloud are on a 321, and the concertos are on large-bore compensators. I think the highest note anywhere on the soundcloud is an A, and
    there are a bunch of notes around that area on some of the other tunes. Additionally, I find the long compensating pistons harder to push as fast
    as I might like to.

    I could make those notes when I had a Miraphone 5050 and a Demondrae mouthpiece, but I didn't like the sound. Additionally, my nickname
    "snorlax" reflects my inherent laziness and unwillingness to work one erg more than I have to. The notes in the upper register are easier to play and more appropriate to pop & jazz on a 321.

    Having said that, however, one thing I can't do is use a peashooter mouthpiece. The one I have used forever on my 321 started life as a Denis Wick 5,
    with surgery to drill out the throat and backbore. I just kept reaming until I could do what I wanted to do easily enough to suit me. On the compensating horns, I used a Wick 4 or equivalent. I simply have to have room to maneuver my lips inside a mouthpiece, and I can't do that on anything smaller that the 5 I use on my 321. I also like the larger throat & backbore that allows me to really move air through the instrument.

    [Rant]The only time I've ever caught any flak for using a 321 is inside the euphonium bubble, as I've mentioned before. A general audience just wants to hear the tune and doesn't care why I use a 321 instead of a Willson and a BB1. Only 2.58% of general-audience people know what a euphonium is.[/Rant]

    *I am eternally grateful to Harvey Phillips for encouraging me to do what I wanted to do on the euphonium, and having faith in me, regardless of what horn I played and regardless of what disparaging comments other "name players" might have made.
    I missed this post. Very much envy you with getting time with Rich Matteson. That must have been incredible. I've admired his playing for many years. He is missed! Harvey Phillips was also "one of a kind". I didn't know him well but wrote him a letter when I was in High School. I received a very nice hand written reply from him and I was amazed by that. I was able to see him in concert in Trenton, NJ in the early 90s. He was a fine persona and a fine player.

    I agree that I like the sound of a smaller bore for jazz. it fits much better in my opinion.
    John 3:16

    Yamaha YSL-630 Trombone
    Conn 15I Euphonium
    Mack Brass Euphonium
    Conn Victor 5H Trombone
    Yamaha 354 Trombone
    Mack Brass 200S BBb Tuba

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Sturgis, South Dakota
    Posts
    934
    Quote Originally Posted by Davidus1 View Post
    I've not played a "medium shank" Euphonium. Where does the sound fall compared to large or small shank horns? Would it be too large a sound for jazz? I've been a musician for over 40 years and have listened to jazz since I was 12 years old but have never worked on "improvisation". I played professionally in the Army (mostly tuba and bass guitar/upright bass) and 1 year is a semi-professional orchestra but left "professional" playing around 1998 and play purely for enjoyment since. I took several years away from playing while raising my two sons. At this point I will admit I'm self conscious about "putting myself out there" improvising. I'm a decent player but all past experience has either been classical type music or as a section player in either rhythm section or trombone section and the beginning steps of improvisation will be humbling............ Anyone been there?
    I read this comment a while back and meant to post a brief reply. I never played trombone growing up, it wasn't until later in life that I picked it up. A lot of my trombone playing is with orchestras and brass quintets. But, I have spent a good amount of time playing trombone in big bands, too. I love playing big band ballads. I have played lead mostly, although I do not improvise. I totally missed that lesson in life growing up, no big bands or jazz in any of the schools I went to, plus I only played baritone/euphonium. So, I have messed around a little using Band in a Box. I was going to suggest this, as a way to sort of ease in and get your legs with the world of jazz. I think there is something else called Garage Band or something like that. With these programs, you can enter in chords and pick from many different types of accompaniments and instruments. You need some MIDI gear usually or sound modules. I have a Yamaha Disklavier piano (with MIDI capability) and a Yamaha MU50 Tone Generator. And some nice speakers. Once set up, you can loop your music to play endless jazz solos in any key, tempo, style, etc. you want. This truly is a good way, along with listening to as much jazz as is humanly possible, to get started. If you are fortunate to be around where there are some community big bands (sometimes offshoots of community bands), many times they tolerate folks who are trying to get their jazz chops going. I know at my age that the train has definitely left the station, and I will be no jazz phenom, but I do try to get a little better at improv occasionally. And it is kind of fun when it is not totally humiliating.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Wessex TE-360 Bombino Eb Tuba
    Rapid City New Horizons & Municipal Bands (Euphonium)
    Black Hills Symphony Orchestra (Bass Trombone), Powder River Symphony, Gillette, WY (Tenor Trombone)
    Black Hills Brass Quintet (Tuba)

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