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Thread: New E3 with Short Valves

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  1. #1

    New E3 with Short Valves

    A couple years ago, I bought an E3 with SS bell and trigger. It's a great horn! After spending time on Sterling, Miraphone, Willson, and Besson, I felt I had found the horn I wanted, both in terms of sound concept and in terms of playability, intonation, etc.

    Prior to buying my miraphone (which I subsequently ended up selling), I'd trialed a prototype E3 with short throw valves that eventually ended up in the hands of daruby.

    After living with my E3 for a while, I'm still super happy with it; I find that it fits well in the brass band playing I do (which is my primary playing), as well as the small bit of wind band playing I do.

    Long story short, I've got some weird neuro issues in my right hand/arm that have made it difficult at times to play for long periods. As such, I reached out to Miel Adams and Trent Austin about the possibility of building me a copy of my E3 with the short valve set. After a conversation with Miel on the phone, I decided to go ahead and do it. 6 months later, and I've got the horn and have had a chance to play it against my existing E3. There are a few small differences, such as with the AGR in the same position, there's a bit more resistance on the short throw valves, but not enough to really matter in the grand scheme of things.

    I'll post some side by side photos a little later, but suffice it to say I'm very happy with the way it turned out. I'm going to keep the existing E3 around for a little while to make sure after a break in period I'm still happy with it, but I will likely sell it in the coming future.

    Hilariously, the most common question I get asked is whether I think the short throw valves will make it easy to play faster; in this case, what they're accomplishing is allowing me to continue playing at all, so I'm delighted!

    Mike Taylor
    Mike Taylor
    Adams E3 - SS Bell/Brushed Lacquer - Custom short valve set
    Adams E3 - SS Bell/Brushed Lacquer - Standard valves - FOR SALE
    Besson BE2056 Baritone
    Illinois Brass Band
    Fox Valley Brass Band

  2. #2
    I love it when a plan comes together -- John "Hannibal" Smith, The A Team
    David Bjornstad

    1923 Conn New Wonder 86I, Bach 6 1/2 AL
    2018 Wessex EP100 Dolce, Denis Wick 4ABL
    2013 Jinbao JBEP-1111L, Denis Wick 4AM
    2015 Jinbao JBBR-1240, Denis Wick clone mouthpiece of unknown designation
    Cullman (AL) Community Band (Euph Section Leader)
    Brass Band of Huntsville (2nd Bari)

  3. #3
    Very interesting. Are you connecting the AGR in the same position being somehow related to more resistance on the short throw valves. The way you wrote that left me wondering. And if you were highlighting the differences, you say with the AGR in the same position, what is the difference there? Just not sure I am getting what you are trying to say. If those are two things, then I guess I would not find it too surprising that there might be a bit more resistance with the short throw valves which would necessitate a little constriction in the tubing around the valves, yes? Daruby - did you find this the case with your Adams short throw? Were you able to test the short throw vs. the regular valves?
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Wessex TE-360 Bombino Eb Tuba
    Rapid City New Horizons & Municipal Bands (Euphonium)
    Black Hills Symphony Orchestra (Bass Trombone), Powder River Symphony, Gillette, WY (Tenor Trombone)
    Black Hills Brass Quintet (Tuba)

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by John Morgan View Post
    Very interesting. Are you connecting the AGR in the same position being somehow related to more resistance on the short throw valves. The way you wrote that left me wondering. And if you were highlighting the differences, you say with the AGR in the same position, what is the difference there? Just not sure I am getting what you are trying to say. If those are two things, then I guess I would not find it too surprising that there might be a bit more resistance with the short throw valves which would necessitate a little constriction in the tubing around the valves, yes? Daruby - did you find this the case with your Adams short throw? Were you able to test the short throw vs. the regular valves?
    Let me clarify - I wasn't as clear as I could have been.

    On both horns, with the AGR out 5.5 turns, the short valve set seems to have SLIGHTLY more backpressure. I came in 1 turn to 4.5 on the horn with the short valves, and it seems to have equalized.

    Quote Originally Posted by daruby View Post
    Mike, Congratulations. Let me know how the horn plays wrt to pitch. I am happy with my E3, but find the 6th partial being in tune causes problems trying to play in pitch with seatmates who play sharp.

    Doug
    Thanks Doug - and thanks for the time you spent on the phone with me when I was hatching this plan!

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelSchott View Post
    You have a great opportunity. Having two of the fundamentally exact horns, other than the valves, do you see any differences in how they play? Tone quality, intonation or otherwise?
    So far so good. They sound essentially the same, and the intonation is comparable. That being said, I've only had the horn 2 weeks, and haven't had the opportunity to play a ton, so I'm going to keep comparing.

    Quote Originally Posted by franz View Post
    This may be a problem with my intention to buy an Adams E3 now, when it comes to the 6 partial, I can tune it right with the help of the trigger, or play it sharp when I'm in unison with my seatmates. How can this be done?
    I have found this less problematic than you might imagine - my seatmate plays a besson new standard, and I don't have difficulty playing with him. I may raise the pitch slightly, but it's no more than you'd change pitch on any other horn.

    Quote Originally Posted by enhite View Post
    Am I correct in thinking that making the valves shorter requires making them with oval holes (with oval tubing leading to and from)?
    Yes, the ports are oval - Adams made them with the same surface area as the round ports on the standard valve set in order to keep them as close as possible.
    Mike Taylor
    Adams E3 - SS Bell/Brushed Lacquer - Custom short valve set
    Adams E3 - SS Bell/Brushed Lacquer - Standard valves - FOR SALE
    Besson BE2056 Baritone
    Illinois Brass Band
    Fox Valley Brass Band

  5. Mike, Congratulations. Let me know how the horn plays wrt to pitch. I am happy with my E3, but find the 6th partial being in tune causes problems trying to play in pitch with seatmates who play sharp.

    Doug
    Last edited by daruby; 08-18-2019 at 04:54 PM.
    Sterling Virtuoso 1052HS & Adams E3 Prototype 0.70 Top Sprung valves
    Sterling Virtuoso 1050HS baritone
    New England Brass Band
    Winchendon Winds/Townsend Military Band

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by daruby View Post
    the 6th partial being in tune causes problems trying to play in pitch with seatmates who play sharp.
    haha! first world problems...
    --
    Barry

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by daruby View Post
    Mike, Congratulations. Let me know how the horn plays wrt to pitch. I am happy with my E3, but find the 6th partial being in tune causes problems trying to play in pitch with seatmates who play sharp.

    Doug
    This may be a problem with my intention to buy an Adams E3 now, when it comes to the 6 partial, I can tune it right with the help of the trigger, or play it sharp when I'm in unison with my seatmates. How can this be done?
    Besson Prestige 2052,3D K&G mouthpiece;JP373 baritone,T4C K&G mouthpiece;Bach 42GO trombone,T4C K&G mouthpiece

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Farmington Hills, MI
    Posts
    282
    Quote Originally Posted by daruby View Post
    Mike, Congratulations. Let me know how the horn plays wrt to pitch. I am happy with my E3, but find the 6th partial being in tune causes problems trying to play in pitch with seatmates who play sharp.

    Doug
    LOL!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Farmington Hills, MI
    Posts
    282
    You have a great opportunity. Having two of the fundamentally exact horns, other than the valves, do you see any differences in how they play? Tone quality, intonation or otherwise?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Anderson, Indiana
    Posts
    225
    Am I correct in thinking that making the valves shorter requires making them with oval holes (with oval tubing leading to and from)?

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