New E3 with Short Valves

[miketeachesclass]

A couple years ago, I bought an E3 with SS bell and trigger. It's a great horn! After spending time on Sterling, Miraphone, Willson, and Besson, I felt I had found the horn I wanted, both in terms of sound concept and in terms of playability, intonation, etc.

Prior to buying my miraphone (which I subsequently ended up selling), I'd trialed a prototype E3 with short throw valves that eventually ended up in the hands of daruby.

After living with my E3 for a while, I'm still super happy with it; I find that it fits well in the brass band playing I do (which is my primary playing), as well as the small bit of wind band playing I do.

Long story short, I've got some weird neuro issues in my right hand/arm that have made it difficult at times to play for long periods. As such, I reached out to Miel Adams and Trent Austin about the possibility of building me a copy of my E3 with the short valve set. After a conversation with Miel on the phone, I decided to go ahead and do it. 6 months later, and I've got the horn and have had a chance to play it against my existing E3. There are a few small differences, such as with the AGR in the same position, there's a bit more resistance on the short throw valves, but not enough to really matter in the grand scheme of things.

I'll post some side by side photos a little later, but suffice it to say I'm very happy with the way it turned out. I'm going to keep the existing E3 around for a little while to make sure after a break in period I'm still happy with it, but I will likely sell it in the coming future.

Hilariously, the most common question I get asked is whether I think the short throw valves will make it easy to play faster; in this case, what they're accomplishing is allowing me to continue playing at all, so I'm delighted!

Mike Taylor

[DaveBj]

I love it when a plan comes together -- John "Hannibal" Smith, The A Team

[John Morgan]

Very interesting. Are you connecting the AGR in the same position being somehow related to more resistance on the short throw valves. The way you wrote that left me wondering. And if you were highlighting the differences, you say with the AGR in the same position, what is the difference there? Just not sure I am getting what you are trying to say. If those are two things, then I guess I would not find it too surprising that there might be a bit more resistance with the short throw valves which would necessitate a little constriction in the tubing around the valves, yes? Daruby - did you find this the case with your Adams short throw? Were you able to test the short throw vs. the regular valves?

[daruby]

Mike, Congratulations. Let me know how the horn plays wrt to pitch. I am happy with my E3, but find the 6th partial being in tune causes problems trying to play in pitch with seatmates who play sharp.

Doug

[bbocaner]

the 6th partial being in tune causes problems trying to play in pitch with seatmates who play sharp.

haha! first world problems...

[MichaelSchott]

Mike, Congratulations. Let me know how the horn plays wrt to pitch. I am happy with my E3, but find the 6th partial being in tune causes problems trying to play in pitch with seatmates who play sharp.

Doug

LOL!

[MichaelSchott]

You have a great opportunity. Having two of the fundamentally exact horns, other than the valves, do you see any differences in how they play? Tone quality, intonation or otherwise?

[franz]

Mike, Congratulations. Let me know how the horn plays wrt to pitch. I am happy with my E3, but find the 6th partial being in tune causes problems trying to play in pitch with seatmates who play sharp.

Doug

This may be a problem with my intention to buy an Adams E3 now, when it comes to the 6° partial, I can tune it right with the help of the trigger, or play it sharp when I'm in unison with my seatmates. How can this be done?

[enhite]

Am I correct in thinking that making the valves shorter requires making them with oval holes (with oval tubing leading to and from)?

[davewerden]

Am I correct in thinking that making the valves shorter requires making them with oval holes (with oval tubing leading to and from)?

That is correct.

[miketeachesclass]

Very interesting. Are you connecting the AGR in the same position being somehow related to more resistance on the short throw valves. The way you wrote that left me wondering. And if you were highlighting the differences, you say with the AGR in the same position, what is the difference there? Just not sure I am getting what you are trying to say. If those are two things, then I guess I would not find it too surprising that there might be a bit more resistance with the short throw valves which would necessitate a little constriction in the tubing around the valves, yes? Daruby - did you find this the case with your Adams short throw? Were you able to test the short throw vs. the regular valves?

Let me clarify - I wasn't as clear as I could have been.

On both horns, with the AGR out 5.5 turns, the short valve set seems to have SLIGHTLY more backpressure. I came in 1 turn to 4.5 on the horn with the short valves, and it seems to have equalized.

Mike, Congratulations. Let me know how the horn plays wrt to pitch. I am happy with my E3, but find the 6th partial being in tune causes problems trying to play in pitch with seatmates who play sharp.

Doug

Thanks Doug - and thanks for the time you spent on the phone with me when I was hatching this plan!

You have a great opportunity. Having two of the fundamentally exact horns, other than the valves, do you see any differences in how they play? Tone quality, intonation or otherwise?

So far so good. They sound essentially the same, and the intonation is comparable. That being said, I've only had the horn 2 weeks, and haven't had the opportunity to play a ton, so I'm going to keep comparing.

This may be a problem with my intention to buy an Adams E3 now, when it comes to the 6° partial, I can tune it right with the help of the trigger, or play it sharp when I'm in unison with my seatmates. How can this be done?

I have found this less problematic than you might imagine - my seatmate plays a besson new standard, and I don't have difficulty playing with him. I may raise the pitch slightly, but it's no more than you'd change pitch on any other horn.

Am I correct in thinking that making the valves shorter requires making them with oval holes (with oval tubing leading to and from)?

Yes, the ports are oval - Adams made them with the same surface area as the round ports on the standard valve set in order to keep them as close as possible.

[razorbacks1898]

i'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts about it long term! I ordered an Adams E3 SS and it should be here in about 2 months. I'm curious if the short throw valves will have any benefits/drawbacks besides the fact that the valves are shorter. Knowing the quality and consistency of Adams, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that there are few drawbacks, if any! I am super excited to see how mine turns out.

[davewerden]

i'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts about it long term! I ordered an Adams E3 SS and it should be here in about 2 months. I'm curious if the short throw valves will have any benefits/drawbacks besides the fact that the valves are shorter. Knowing the quality and consistency of Adams, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that there are few drawbacks, if any! I am super excited to see how mine turns out.

I found the short-action prototype did not have quite as good a response as the one I'm playing, so I chose not to go in that direction. However, I didn't notice the tone suffering, and the shorter throw on the valves was certainly appealing. I would not hesitate to venture that a player who needs a little help on valves because of physical issues would be just find with the short-action Adams.

Keep in mind that I was comparing the short-action Adams to a normal Adams, which I consider to be the best horn on the market. I suspect if someone who played a different brand tried only the short-action Adams, they would judge it to be a very fine horn.