3rd valve use

[Jasoncostello77]

Hi Friends, what are your thoughts on the third valve being used alone as opposed to 1 and 2? I’ve always been taught to use 1 and 2 and never use the 3rd valve alone but yet I see so many of the pros doing it

[highpitch]

Gets a better in-staff G on my Besson.

DG

[DaveBj]

In a slow passage, if it's in tune, go for it, especially if it makes things easier.

In a fast passage, I would use it, if it makes the fingerings easier. I may catch some flak for this, but I don't think intonation on one note will matter much in a fast passage. Unless it's really off, only the sharpest ears are going to catch it anyway.

[davewerden]

I am in the "use what works" camp. For me the deciding factor is whether I need the 3rd slide to be longer for 23, and if that makes it too long for 3 alone on concert G (or D).

FWIW, I like the response and sound clarity of 3 better than 12.

[TheJH]

Same here. Depends on intonation, tuning, response, sounds, resistance... I often use 3rd valve for my A below the staff (TC) in FF passages because I can just put a bit more air through it and be just that little bit louder without having to blow through too much resistance.

[JVickers]

I was actually just reading the article on page 25 of this pdf last night: http://fac.hsu.edu/bucknej/hbm/Brass...%20-%20HO2.pdf. Charlie Geyer talks about the inherent problems of the 1&2 valve combination, as well as other items relating to intonation.

[RickF]

I always use 3 for concert 'G' (treble clef 'A') in the staff as my M5050 is really sharp with 1-2 for that note. For B natural (5th partial) above that note, 3 is flat for me so 1-2 is what I use.

[Davidus1]

I use it often! If it works, why not. I use it regularly on tuba as well.

[franz]

Some considerations:
the brass instruments are essentially a tube equipped at the two ends of a bell and a mouthpiece, with which the sounds of the harmonic series can be emitted based on the length of the tube itself. With the invention of the valves it was possible to obtain all the notes by increasing the length of the original tube by adding additional sections of tubes. In equal temperament for each half step about 6% of the original pipe must be added. The additional traits are calculated so as to obtain the following values (in cent ):

2°----------half step-------100 cent
1°----------2 half steps----200 cent
3°----------3 half steps----300 cent
1°-2°------3 half steps----290 cent
2°-3°------4 half steps----384 cent
1°-3°------5 half steps----467 cent
1°-2°-3°--6 half steps----546 cent

From here it can be seen that the combinations of several valves increasing intonation (this has been partially solved with the compensation system- see the description by Dave Werden ). In choosing which valve to use to obtain the various notes, it is necessary to consider in which part of the harmonic series we find ourselves. For example if I play an A (four partial, treble clef) with 1°-2° it will be sharp, wile with 3° it will be right, while for a C# (fifth partial) with 1°-2° it will be right, while with 3° it will be flat. So to get an F with 1° (sixth partial, very sharp in all brass instruments), using 1°-3°( seventh partial, usually unusable because very flat) it will be right because the two valves together add less bore than necessary to obtain 5 half steps. ( In brass instruments the harmonic series is: fundamental, 2°, 4°, 8°, partials are right, 3°, 6°, 9°, 12 partials are sharps, 5°, 10°partials are flats, 7°, 11°, 13° partials are very flats, usually not usable).
Concluding there is no obligatory positions for all notes: it depends on the instrument, on its position in the harmonic series, on how the slides are sets etc. Then, in my opinion, music should not be interpreted as a succession of 100% accurate sounds (equal temperament is a compromise of intonation), but it must express feelings, moods, give emotions, otherwise this can be done by a robot (some time ago I saw a robot, I believe made by Yamaha, that played a trumpet) ,but it was a succession of notes without any expression.

[John Morgan]

I want to audition for the U.S. third valve vs. first and second valve competition. Shouldn't this topic be somewhere like euphonium-misc or performance and practice - tips and advice rather than under the Euphonium Auditions section? Just wondering....

[davewerden]

... Shouldn't this topic be somewhere like euphonium-misc or performance and practice - tips and advice rather than under the Euphonium Auditions section? Just wondering....

Thanks! It is now moved.

[adrian_quince]

This is actually one of those euphonium habits that's made its way back into my trumpet playing. There are times when the third valve is really the best option, whether it's due to tuning, response, or the fingers working better that way.