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Thread: 3 + 1 vs. 4 Inline (valves)

  1. #41
    I think it was in 1980 that I saw a performer using a Miraphone compensating euph (their first model). He had a factory option of a trigger, but it worked the 1st and 3rd slides simultaneously. Simpler and clever in its own way. Didn't catch on, though.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    YouTube: dwerden
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    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  2. Quote Originally Posted by bbocaner View Post
    Tuba players, particularly of american style front-action tubas, have a long tradition of manipulating slides while they play to adjust intonation. The models that come with straps on the tuning slides aren't necessarily elastic to bring them back to home position, I believe they are to prevent the player from pulling to far and either pulling the slide off or getting it to the point where it could become jammed.
    Ahhh, now I see. I've seen the adjusting before, but just hadn't seen many people with the string before. I had noticed that most tubas have the first valve slide pointing upwards, so it can be easily manipulated. I also played with a tuba player who was using a F tuba with a 2nd valve slide trigger. That was definitely interesting to see.
    Sterling / Perantucci 1065HGS Euphonium, Yamaha YBB-631S BBb Tuba, and a bunch of trombones.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Sacramento, CA area
    Posts
    165
    "Chris Olka is an excellent example of playing a tuba with these strings." (RickF)

    I think I am jealous of how effortless and smooth his slides seem to work. It barely seems that he is pushing or pulling on them at all. I wonder what his secret, and choice of lube, is.
    - Sara
    Baritone - 3 Valve, Compensating, JinBao JBBR1240

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Sara Hood View Post
    I think I am jealous of how effortless and smooth his slides seem to work. It barely seems that he is pushing or pulling on them at all. I wonder what his secret, and choice of lube, is.
    - Sara
    Most likely, his secret is a tech that lapped the slides for him, making them smoother and decreasing the diameter just a bit. That would make them easier to move, and then he probably uses "Slide Oil" instead of "Slide Gel" or "Grease".

    I had the opposite problem on a trombone, and the tech just put a dent ball inside one leg, increasing the diameter ever so slightly.
    Sterling / Perantucci 1065HGS Euphonium, Yamaha YBB-631S BBb Tuba, and a bunch of trombones.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
    Posts
    2,019
    Quote Originally Posted by tbonesullivan View Post
    Most likely, his secret is a tech that lapped the slides for him, making them smoother and decreasing the diameter just a bit. That would make them easier to move, and then he probably uses "Slide Oil" instead of "Slide Gel" or "Grease".
    Yes, this is what I did (i.e., I did it -- not a tech) to the 1st valve slide on my Cerveny 781 BBb horn. It's quite simple to do IF the slide legs are really parallel. I then used standard valve oil (Alisyn in my case) as the lubricant. Care must be taken in the lapping since you want it to work smoothly and easily, with virtually no effort, but to remain in place if you let it go or set it for "standard tuning". It should not be as loose/slick as a trombone hand slide. Finally, it's absolutely silly to do this unless you vent the valve for that slide. However, once all that's done on a standard German/Czech-style tuba, then your hand rests on the top bow and you can use the 1st valve slide to dynamically tune as needed. It worked so well that for any valve combinations involving the 1st valve I rarely used the 4th valve and confined it's use almost solely to the low range where it was really needed to lower the pitch. 4th valve combinations for "alternate fingerings" in order to adjust pitch in all registers except the contra one were generally eliminated.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (Denis Wick 3XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba, modified Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K9/112 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  6. #46
    It's also very helpful if the inner and outer tubes are truly parallel. Lots of brand new high-end instruments are parallel and aligned enough so that they are usable, but not good enough that they will work smoothly once lapped like this.
    --
    Barry

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
    Posts
    3,199
    Quote Originally Posted by Sara Hood View Post
    "Chris Olka is an excellent example of playing a tuba with these strings." (RickF)

    I think I am jealous of how effortless and smooth his slides seem to work. It barely seems that he is pushing or pulling on them at all. I wonder what his secret, and choice of lube, is.
    - Sara
    Pretty sure Mr. Olka uses Resilience Oil products. Probably the 'kicker slide' lube.
    See his review of Resilience Oil from Sept. 2018.
    ...
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton Brandon Jones sig mpc
    YEP-641S (on long-term loan to grandson)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    When the Saints Go Marching In (arr. Mashima) at ACB Conference Ft. Lauderdale
    Cell phone video of : El Cumbanchero:

  8. Quote Originally Posted by davewerden View Post
    Marzan (Willson) also have a 4-valve front-valve compensating euphonium, similar to the Festivo. They have upright bells. I think Besson actually made a similar horn for a while, and offered a curved bell (not sure, though).
    I posted about this a few years ago. My daughter became quite used to using front action 3v piston horns (both upright and forward bell) in middle school. I wanted to get her a 4v horn for high school. She was quite adament about having front action valves in a 4v. Being neither able to find nor afford the Wilson, I located a King 2268 at Baltimore Brass. It is 4v, non-compensating, bel up. At the time, they had 2 and she play tested and selected her favorite. It is very light but has a nice tone.
    Weril H980 euph
    Besson 4v comp euph 314xxx
    Besson 3v comp euph 455xxx
    King 3v bari. 20xxx
    King 4v double-bell euph 50xxx
    Conn 5v double-bell euph 355xxx
    Buescher 3+1 double-bell euph 285xxx
    Olds bell-front 3v bari
    Holton alto horn
    Holton 3v tuba
    Belleville Helicon
    Some of the performances of the Mid-Shore Community Band:
    http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...ty%20band&sm=3

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