Originally posted by MichaelSchott
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3 + 1 vs. 4 Inline (valves)
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Sterling / Perantucci 1065HGS Euphonium, 1952 B&H Imperial Eb Tuba, and a bunch of trombones.
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Originally posted by tbonesullivan View PostI don't think I've seen a valve-front compensating horn aside from the Festivo. I have seen a good number of 4 valve front-action horns from Conn over the years of stalking the Baltimore Brass website. But most are definitely 3 valves, and usually bell front as well.Dave Werden (ASCAP)
Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
Adams Artist (Adams E3)
Alliance Mouthpiece DC3, Wick 4AL, Wick 4ABL
YouTube: dwerden
Facebook: davewerden
Twitter: davewerden
Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium
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Originally posted by davewerden View PostMarzan (Willson) also have a 4-valve front-valve compensating euphonium, similar to the Festivo. They have upright bells. I think Besson actually made a similar horn for a while, and offered a curved bell (not sure, though).
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Interesting! I looked on google, and it looks like Marzan/ Willson made a few different versions of that horn. I don't think the Festivo is a stencil of any of them, though I don't doubt that the Marzan horn was the inspiration.
I also now see that Willson is making Three valve compensating Euphoniums, which they label as having "3 automatically compensating valves". Seems like an interesting move.Sterling / Perantucci 1065HGS Euphonium, 1952 B&H Imperial Eb Tuba, and a bunch of trombones.
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Originally posted by MichaelSchott View PostValve front euphoniums with upright bells are an anomaly. In that context they are barely worth discussion academically.Gary Merrill
Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)
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The 3+1 system was devised years ago (around 1850 I believe with the advent of the compensating system) as the recognized standard for professional horns. First for military bands it is easier to carry and play on the march. Second naturally you have much better dexterity (and strength) in your left index finger versus your right pinky. I've never figured out why the four across the top still remains out there. If a player decides to get serious about his playing, he has to move to a 3+1 anyway.
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Thinking about the 3+1 compensating system, when did people start using main tuning slide triggers in the widespread sense? Yamaha didn't even have them until 2017, and they are usually pretty on top of things. When I first was looking into Euphoniums 5 years ago, I never saw them. Now they are everywhere seemingly. Also on some higher model tubas as well, some of which have little elastic bands all over the valve slides to bring them back to position.Sterling / Perantucci 1065HGS Euphonium, 1952 B&H Imperial Eb Tuba, and a bunch of trombones.
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Originally posted by tbonesullivan View PostInteresting! I looked on google, and it looks like Marzan/ Willson made a few different versions of that horn. I don't think the Festivo is a stencil of any of them
https://wessex-tubas.com/collections...onium-baritoneLast edited by bbocaner; 08-06-2019, 03:56 PM.--
Barry
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Originally posted by tbonesullivan View PostThinking about the 3+1 compensating system, when did people start using main tuning slide triggers in the widespread sense? Yamaha didn't even have them until 2017, and they are usually pretty on top of things. When I first was looking into Euphoniums 5 years ago, I never saw them. Now they are everywhere seemingly. Also on some higher model tubas as well, some of which have little elastic bands all over the valve slides to bring them back to position.
Tuba players, particularly of american style front-action tubas, have a long tradition of manipulating slides while they play to adjust intonation. The models that come with straps on the tuning slides aren't necessarily elastic to bring them back to home position, I believe they are to prevent the player from pulling to far and either pulling the slide off or getting it to the point where it could become jammed.Last edited by bbocaner; 08-06-2019, 04:06 PM.--
Barry
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Originally posted by bbocaner View Post(snip) The models that come with straps on the tuning slides aren't necessarily elastic to bring them back to home position, I believe they are to prevent the player from pulling to far and either pulling the slide off or getting it to the point where it could become jammed.
...Last edited by RickF; 08-06-2019, 07:25 PM.Rick Floyd
Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc
"Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
The Cowboys (John Williams, arr. James Curnow)
Festive Overture (Dmitri Shostakovich)​
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I think it was in 1980 that I saw a performer using a Miraphone compensating euph (their first model). He had a factory option of a trigger, but it worked the 1st and 3rd slides simultaneously. Simpler and clever in its own way. Didn't catch on, though.Dave Werden (ASCAP)
Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
Adams Artist (Adams E3)
Alliance Mouthpiece DC3, Wick 4AL, Wick 4ABL
YouTube: dwerden
Facebook: davewerden
Twitter: davewerden
Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium
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Originally posted by bbocaner View PostTuba players, particularly of american style front-action tubas, have a long tradition of manipulating slides while they play to adjust intonation. The models that come with straps on the tuning slides aren't necessarily elastic to bring them back to home position, I believe they are to prevent the player from pulling to far and either pulling the slide off or getting it to the point where it could become jammed.Sterling / Perantucci 1065HGS Euphonium, 1952 B&H Imperial Eb Tuba, and a bunch of trombones.
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"Chris Olka is an excellent example of playing a tuba with these strings." (RickF)
I think I am jealous of how effortless and smooth his slides seem to work. It barely seems that he is pushing or pulling on them at all. I wonder what his secret, and choice of lube, is.
- SaraBaritone - 3 Valve, Compensating, JinBao JBBR1240
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Originally posted by Sara Hood View PostI think I am jealous of how effortless and smooth his slides seem to work. It barely seems that he is pushing or pulling on them at all. I wonder what his secret, and choice of lube, is.
- Sara
I had the opposite problem on a trombone, and the tech just put a dent ball inside one leg, increasing the diameter ever so slightly.Sterling / Perantucci 1065HGS Euphonium, 1952 B&H Imperial Eb Tuba, and a bunch of trombones.
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Originally posted by tbonesullivan View PostMost likely, his secret is a tech that lapped the slides for him, making them smoother and decreasing the diameter just a bit. That would make them easier to move, and then he probably uses "Slide Oil" instead of "Slide Gel" or "Grease".Gary Merrill
Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)
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