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Thread: Adams Red Brass vs. Sterling Silver bell.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Bloomington, IN USA
    Posts
    1

    Adams Red Brass vs. Sterling Silver bell.

    Hello, long time reader first time poster. I apologise in advance if this has been covered previously.
    I知 working on building an Adams euphonium and I知 looking for an extremely dark sound and I知 working with a fellow from Austin Custom Brass. He痴 advising a red brass bell and I知 toying with sterling or the red brass. If I could get some suggestions, photos, comparisons, pros and cons on building a horn. I知 also looking for a more matte finish, so this is all new to me. I致e previously only had experience with a YEP-842, which I wasn稚 a fan of, and my favourite to date the Prestige 2052. Thank you all.

  2. #2
    Welcome to the forum!

    The inconvenient part of all the Adams options is that the variety is overwhelming. Even with all my exposure to their horns, I have not tried every combination.
    However, here are some thoughts.

    First, I assume you have followed the thread where I was testing out a .70 yellow brass E3, comparing it to my own sterling bell E3 (.60). There is an A/B recording there you might find interesting. It could give you perspective about the degree of difference such a change can make.

    In recently had a chance to test an E3 in gold brass, vs. my own. Some good listeners who heard it noticed that the attacks were slightly less clear on the gold brass. The red brass would take you further down that road. This is just one of the variables that a player can learn to adjust. Presumably with a red brass bell (or horn) one would need to use stronger attacks.

    The red brass will darken the sound. I recall playing a red brass E1 in .50 thickness. That would normally be too light for my tastes, but the red brass brought the tone color into a nice area, and the lighter metal made the horn more responsive. It was an interesting combination, but would suffer in situations where one needs to play very loud (because of the thinner metal).

    Sterling silver is the most dense of all the options, but it does not seem to muffle attacks. It is capable of very dark sound, but can also be coaxed to brightness when desired. It's still my favorite when I actually start playing stuff. What is confusing is that the yellow brass horn, for example, sounds better than mine when I pick it up to warm up in my studio. But as you can hear from the recordings, they are very close. It takes a large room to appreciate some of the differences.

    Adams has a pretty good description of the differences in their catalog. Here is an excerpt from the 2014 catalog:

    Yellow Brass
    This bell is an excellent mix of materials for all round
    work as this material is very versatile. The sound is clear
    and brilliant at all dynamic levels, with a good core and
    great projection. This alloy is ideal for lead trumpet,
    commercial playing and studio work. also a good choice
    for principal trumpet players in symphony orchestras or
    someone who is looking for good crispness to the
    articulated sound.


    Gold Brass
    like the yellow brass bell this is a very versatile horn -
    a near perfect blend of warmth and projection. The gold
    brass brings a depth to the sound which is very smooth,
    rich and dark, however it is still a lively and agile trumpet.
    it responds quickly and has good projection without
    getting as brilliant as the yellow brass bell. we find it to
    be suited to a host of applications: be it in the jazz
    soloist, the crossover artist, the classical soloist, or
    someone who is looking for depth to sound while still
    retaining projection.


    Red Brass
    The red brass bell material is an ideal choice for the
    soloist who is looking for the richest, warmest, thickest
    sound available. higher in copper content than our other
    two bell choices this provides the player with the
    smoothest transitions from note to note. articulations
    are veiled (although with a lighter red brass bell option it
    is greatly improved) and sound shape is overall a bit
    wider in shape.


    Sterling Silver
    we do offer all custom series Trumpet models with a
    solid sterling silver bell. sterling silver is a very versatile
    material but also much more dependent on the
    individual’s particular ability level. Therefore we
    recommend this bell option for the serious amateur or
    professional. The general characteristics are the bell is
    much darker and thicker when played at soft to medium
    volumes. when this bell is pushed the higher overtones
    are much more present and the result is a wonderful
    sound with great “sparkle.”
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams E3, Denis Wick 4AL (classic)
    Instructor of Euphonium and Tuba
    Twitter: davewerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    YouTube: dwerden
    Owner of TubaEuph.com, DWerden.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Sturgis, South Dakota
    Posts
    934
    Like Dave, I have an Adams E3 with Sterling Silver bell. Here are a couple links to my review with many pictures of my horn. It has a brushed finish, with the inside of the bell being shinny. I also had extensive engraving done on the entire bell. It is a beautiful horn, and I love it. I have had it three years.

    Part One:
    http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthr...w#.XSkxePZFzIU

    Part Two:
    http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthr...w#.XSkxvfZFzIU

    I think I have all the specs of my horn in the review. Let me know if I can answer any questions for you.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Wessex TE-360 Bombino Eb Tuba
    Rapid City New Horizons & Municipal Bands (Euphonium)
    Black Hills Symphony Orchestra (Bass Trombone), Powder River Symphony, Gillette, WY (Tenor Trombone)
    Black Hills Brass Quintet (Tuba)

  4. #4
    On the topic of Adams differences - an interesting thing I discovered at ITEC this year:

    I played every single horn in the Adams room at least twice and the E1 was consistently my favorite model. I'm a very big advocate of "everyone's different, choose the horn for YOU" but I was honestly surprised by my preference, considering the E3 seems to be the popular one among most high-level players. I just really liked the "zing" I got from the E1 (especially a particular horn which I will not disclose because I might want to buy it if I can justify owning two horns to myself and my wife >:] ).

    Just further illustrates the high level of quality in the top brands and that you should go through and find an instrument YOU prefer rather than buying what someone else likes.
    Sean Kissane
    Development Director - International Tuba-Euphonium Association
    Geneva Oldroyd Cardinal Custom Euphonium
    Adams E1 Custom (.6 Gold Brass, Brushed Lacquer, Sterling Silver Leadpipe)
    Giddings DHWA-S Mouthpiece

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Anderson, Indiana
    Posts
    215
    When taking bell materials into consideration, please understand that silver is much softer than brass. When my sterling silver belled Adams E2 was weeks old, I made the mistake of placing it bell down on the carpet while I went to another room. When I returned, it was laying sideways on the floor with a crease in the bell. Lesson learned on storage but be aware that a silver bell is much more easily damaged.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by enhite View Post
    When taking bell materials into consideration, please understand that silver is much softer than brass. When my sterling silver belled Adams E2 was weeks old, I made the mistake of placing it bell down on the carpet while I went to another room. When I returned, it was laying sideways on the floor with a crease in the bell. Lesson learned on storage but be aware that a silver bell is much more easily damaged.
    Oh man that made me cringe!!! That's a dang shame. I hope you were able to get it fixed!

    I know there aren't as many "options" for euphonium bells as with trombones (until someone makes a modular euphonium), but I know that Edwards trombones stopped offering certain bells because they were just TOO soft. As in like putting in a mute correctly would result in permanent impressions where the corks were. I believe that was their thinnest bells that were heat treated, which negated all the work hardening from spinning the bell.

  7. #7
    I just really liked the "zing" I got from the E1 (especially a particular horn which I will not disclose because I might want to buy it if I can justify owning two horns to myself and my wife >:] ).


    So... I pulled the trigger. The heart wants what the heart wants! I've ordered the exact Adams horn I played at ITEC and couldn't stop thinking about. It's an E1 with a .6 gold brass bell and a sterling silver leadpipe. I'll post photos and perhaps some recordings to demonstrate the sound of this unique combination. (I'm told Adams is on a holiday currently, so UNFORTUNATELY I have to wait until the end of the month to receive it)

    Many thanks to Dave for helping me track the horn down two months after I tried it AND to Austin Custom Brass for making the sale.

    I still love my Geneva, and it's a very different feel, so I'm going to see if I can get by financially owning both horns. Everyone needs two euphoniums, right?!
    Sean Kissane
    Development Director - International Tuba-Euphonium Association
    Geneva Oldroyd Cardinal Custom Euphonium
    Adams E1 Custom (.6 Gold Brass, Brushed Lacquer, Sterling Silver Leadpipe)
    Giddings DHWA-S Mouthpiece

  8. #8
    Congratulations on the purchase! Looking forward to some Recording!

    Are you sure 2 euphos are enough though?
    "Never over complicate things. Accept "bad" days. And always enjoy yourself when playing, love the sound we can make on our instruments (because that's why we all started playing the Euphonium)"

    Euphonium: JP 274 MKII - 千歌
    Mouthpiece: K&G 4D, Denis Wick 5AL
    Gone but not forgotten: Yamaha EP100 - Euphy (May you serve the children well in the hands of your new owner. Thank you for the past 15 years)

    https://soundcloud.com/ashsparkle_chika
    https://www.youtube.com/user/AshTSparkle/

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis area
    Posts
    780
    Congrats...Loan the Geneva to me.
    Last edited by Snorlax; 08-08-2019 at 12:10 PM.
    Yamaha 642-II Neo, Wedge 103A/Wick 4AL
    Yamaha 321, Yamaha 621 Baritone
    Conn 50H trombone
    Blue P-bone
    www.soundcloud.com/jweuph

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Hidden Valley, AZ
    Posts
    642
    The only good thing about placing a euph on the bell is convenience.

    Everything from scratching the edge, gunking up the felts, to having it fall over (as illustrated).

    One should ever do it, even for a photo op.

    Dennis
    3 notes and the truth.

    1966 Besson 181 highly modified New Standard, early model Wick 4AL
    1918 Hawkes & Son euph 3&1 original
    1917 Conn C/D/Eb mellophone original
    1915 York Bb tenorhorn original, Bach 5GS

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