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Thread: Comparing my Warburton Demondrae mouthpiece to the K&G 3.5D

  1. #1

    Comparing my Warburton Demondrae mouthpiece to the K&G 3.5D

    I have been curious about the K&G 3.5D mouthpiece due to a lot of chatter about it on this site. I have been using the Warburton Demondrae Thurman signature mouthpiece on my horns for almost 6 years now. On a Miraphone 5050, a Wessex Dolce and an Adams E3.

    So, when Brandon Jones put a K&G 3.5D up for sale recently, I snagged it. Got the mouthpiece yesterday.

    I spent the better part of yesterday play testing the K&G (silver) against my Warburton (gold). I judged myself, and I also kept asking my wife which she preferred. I played many, many excerpts and pieces in many different styles. Linda picked the Warburton probably 65-70% of the time. I liked the Warburton probably 80% of the time. That is actually saying something for the K&G, because in other comparisons with other mouthpieces, I liked the Warburton 100% of the time.

    The K&G is a really nice mouthpiece. K&G says the inside diameter of their 3.5D is 26.4 mm. The Warburton inside diameter is 26.162 mm. So, you would think the K&G is bigger? No, I don't think so. I measured, and they appear to be pretty much the same. I don't have good measuring tools, so I could be wrong. I think the K&G is smaller than listed, but not by much. The bore of the Warburton is .290 in, but the bore is not listed for the K&G.

    The Warburton is THE BEST mouthpiece (for me) that I have played. The K&G you would think would play bigger. The sound was very nice, but not quite as big or full as the Warburton. If I had just tried the K&G without anything else to compare, I would like it (and I did), and it would be a keeper for me. I am still going to keep it. I think it might work well for certain types of music and styles. I want to say it is a little brighter sounding than the Warburton, but just a wee bit of that only. And that doesn't mean that the K&G delivers a bright sound, just that it is not quite as dark and warm as the Warburton. But very little difference.

    I just now held up both mouthpieces side by side, and my gosh, they both look very similar (the rim and inside, that is). Both of the rims are medium width and comfortable, with the Warburton being a little wider. The Warburton rim is also more rounded. But they are both comfortable. The bore (hole at the bottom of the cup) looks a tiny bit bigger on the K&G to my surprise after playing it. The cup size and shape appear almost identical to my old eyes. The Warburton seems to have a little more mass overall on the outside and seems a bit heavier.

    These mouthpieces, for me, are both great. I may play on the K&G for a few weeks exclusively to see if I change my mind. But from several hours yesterday, I do prefer the Warburton at this point, but I could surely play and get a great sound out of the K&G.
    Last edited by John Morgan; 06-16-2019 at 08:37 PM.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Wessex TE-360 Bombino Eb Tuba
    Rapid City New Horizons & Municipal Bands (Euphonium)
    Black Hills Symphony Orchestra (Bass Trombone), Powder River Symphony, Gillette, WY (Tenor Trombone)
    Black Hills Brass Quintet (Tuba)

  2. #2
    Great write up! Been hoping to see what people would say comparing the K&G with other well know brands. I have to say the whole physics of the mouthpiece is rather fascinating to me, how the slight difference in the rim, throat etc all can have such a marked difference on the sound.
    "Never over complicate things. Accept "bad" days. Always enjoy yourself when playing, love the sound we can make on our instruments (because that's why we all started playing the Euph)"

    Euph: Yamaha 642II Neo - 千歌音, JP 274 MKII - 千歌
    Mouthpiece: K&G 4D, Denis Wick 5AL
    Thank you for the past 15 years -Yamaha EP100 - Euphy

    https://soundcloud.com/ashsparkle_chika
    https://www.youtube.com/user/AshTSparkle/

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianeSparkle View Post
    Great write up! Been hoping to see what people would say comparing the K&G with other well know brands. I have to say the whole physics of the mouthpiece is rather fascinating to me, how the slight difference in the rim, throat etc all can have such a marked difference on the sound.
    You are right, Christiane. In looking at each mouthpiece, I almost would have expected the same results when playing each of them. But they are different. And both very nice. I played these at home in our living room today and yesterday, and that room has a high ceiling and pretty good acoustics, not overly live, but not dead like a low ceiling, carpeted basement room might be. I do think I just might play on the K&G for a month maybe and see what I think. I know I like the Warburton a LOT, so if I am not totally pleased with the K&G, I will use the Warburton as my main piece. But I am definitely keeping the K&G, also.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Wessex TE-360 Bombino Eb Tuba
    Rapid City New Horizons & Municipal Bands (Euphonium)
    Black Hills Symphony Orchestra (Bass Trombone), Powder River Symphony, Gillette, WY (Tenor Trombone)
    Black Hills Brass Quintet (Tuba)

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by John Morgan View Post
    I have been curious about the K&G 3.5D mouthpiece due to a lot of chatter about it on this site. I have been using the Warburton Demondrae Thurman signature mouthpiece on my horns for almost 6 years now. On a Miraphone 5050, a Wessex Dolce and an Adams E3.

    So, when Brandon Jones put a K&G 3.5D up for sale recently, I snagged it. Got the mouthpiece yesterday.

    I spent the better part of yesterday play testing the K&G (silver) against my Warburton (gold). I judged myself, and I also kept asking my wife which she preferred. I played many, many excerpts and pieces in many different styles. Linda picked the Warburton probably 65-70% of the time. I liked the Warburton probably 80% of the time. That is actually saying something for the K&G, because in other comparisons with other mouthpieces, I liked the Warburton 100% of the time.

    The K&G is a really nice mouthpiece. K&G says the inside diameter of their 3.5D is 26.4 mm. The Warburton inside diameter is 26.162 mm. So, you would think the K&G is bigger? No, I don't think so. I measured, and they appear to be pretty much the same. I don't have good measuring tools, so I could be wrong. I think the K&G is smaller than listed, but not by much. The bore of the Warburton is .290 in, but the bore is not listed for the K&G.

    The Warburton is THE BEST mouthpiece (for me) that I have played. The K&G you would think would play bigger. The sound was very nice, but not quite as big or full as the Warburton. If I had just tried the K&G without anything else to compare, I would like it (and I did), and it would be a keeper for me. I am still going to keep it. I think it might work well for certain types of music and styles. I want to say it is a little brighter sounding than the Warburton, but just a wee bit of that only. And that doesn't mean that the K&G delivers a bright sound, just that it is not quite as dark and warm as the Warburton. But very little difference.

    I just now held up both mouthpieces side by side, and my gosh, they both look very similar (the rim and inside, that is). Both of the rims are medium width and comfortable, with the Warburton being a little wider. The Warburton rim is also more rounded. But they are both comfortable. The bore (hole at the bottom of the cup) looks a tiny bit bigger on the K&G to my surprise after playing it. The cup size and shape appear almost identical to my old eyes. The Warburton seems to have a little more mass overall on the outside and seems a bit heavier.

    These mouthpieces, for me, are both great. I may play on the K&G for a few weeks exclusively to see if I change my mind. But from several hours yesterday, I do prefer the Warburton at this point, but I could surely play and get a great sound out of the K&G.
    Glad you enjoyed it, I love K&G mouthpieces. For the measurements it is necessary to calculate 0,3mm less than the one shown in their table, while the bore on my 3D measures 7,4mm (0,291 inches).
    Besson Prestige 2052,3D K&G mouthpiece;JP373 baritone,T4C K&G mouthpiece;Bach 42GO trombone,T4C K&G mouthpiece

  5. I too have the Demondrae MP and although I enjoy the big sound I get from it, it requires constant work on my end to stay in good enough shape to be able to play in the upper register for extended periods. I'm unable to practice for hours a day, so I switched to a Parker 4G 53 that I customized for myself at NABBA this year, which I have found works better for my embouchure relative to the amount of time I can spend on the euphonium on a daily basis (about an hour).
    James Kircoff
    Genesee Wind Symphony - principal euphonium (Adams E3 Custom .60mm yellow brass bell w/ Parker 4G Houser)
    Capital City Brass Band (2019 NABBA 2nd section champions) - 1st baritone (Besson BE956 w/ Denis Wick 6BY) and 10 piece ensemble (Getzen 1052FD bass trombone w/ Bach 1G)

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by jkircoff View Post
    ...Parker 4G 53 that I customized for myself at NABBA this year...
    What did you customize on the mouthpiece? Did you do it yourself or did you get Parker to do it at your request?
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams E3, Denis Wick 4AL (classic)
    Instructor of Euphonium and Tuba
    Twitter: davewerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    YouTube: dwerden
    Owner of TubaEuph.com, DWerden.com

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by jkircoff View Post
    I too have the Demondrae MP and although I enjoy the big sound I get from it, it requires constant work on my end to stay in good enough shape to be able to play in the upper register for extended periods. I'm unable to practice for hours a day, so I switched to a Parker 4G 53 that I customized for myself at NABBA this year, which I have found works better for my embouchure relative to the amount of time I can spend on the euphonium on a daily basis (about an hour).
    I admit that I do play a lot, so I stay in pretty good shape. And the more I play, the better the Warburton sounds. I have a solo to play middle of July, so I think I will stick to the Warburton until then. After that, nothing for a couple months on euphonium, so I will try the K&G 3.5D for a few weeks then and see what I think. It is hard to decide on a mouthpiece after just a day or two. I think it takes longer to fully get used to it.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Wessex TE-360 Bombino Eb Tuba
    Rapid City New Horizons & Municipal Bands (Euphonium)
    Black Hills Symphony Orchestra (Bass Trombone), Powder River Symphony, Gillette, WY (Tenor Trombone)
    Black Hills Brass Quintet (Tuba)

  8. Quote Originally Posted by davewerden View Post
    What did you customize on the mouthpiece? Did you do it yourself or did you get Parker to do it at your request?
    Parker had components at NABBA to allow you to construct your own MP, which consists of the rim, cup, and shank. Michael Parker was there, and he helped me construct a MP based on my MP history and what what I was looking to accomplish with a new MP (a smaller cup diameter, slightly more shallow cup, a sharper rim when compared to the Demondrae MP). After experimenting with various combinations for an hour (play tested with my Sterling Virtuoso), I ended up going with the following configuration:

    Parker 4G 53 stainless steel cup with 4GM gold rim and stainless steel shank
    Rim diameter: 26.5mm
    Throat: .280
    Backbore: 427

    I've been using the Parker MP for 2 months and have played Rhapsody for Euphonium along with The World is Waiting for the Sunrise with it, and I've found the tone quality and responsiveness throughout the high and low registers to be very good while allowing me to have more endurance than the Demondrae....which I find to be a very demanding MP.
    James Kircoff
    Genesee Wind Symphony - principal euphonium (Adams E3 Custom .60mm yellow brass bell w/ Parker 4G Houser)
    Capital City Brass Band (2019 NABBA 2nd section champions) - 1st baritone (Besson BE956 w/ Denis Wick 6BY) and 10 piece ensemble (Getzen 1052FD bass trombone w/ Bach 1G)

  9. Quote Originally Posted by John Morgan View Post
    I admit that I do play a lot, so I stay in pretty good shape. And the more I play, the better the Warburton sounds. I have a solo to play middle of July, so I think I will stick to the Warburton until then. After that, nothing for a couple months on euphonium, so I will try the K&G 3.5D for a few weeks then and see what I think. It is hard to decide on a mouthpiece after just a day or two. I think it takes longer to fully get used to it.
    The Demondrae is a MP I'd like to make work, but I have to balance work, family, and other "real life" stuff in addition to practice, so I can't give the MP time it needs for my embouchure to be strong enough for its strongest qualities to be realized over sustained periods of time.

    My general rule of thumb is to give a MP around 6 weeks of consistent and exclusive use before giving it a final verdict.
    James Kircoff
    Genesee Wind Symphony - principal euphonium (Adams E3 Custom .60mm yellow brass bell w/ Parker 4G Houser)
    Capital City Brass Band (2019 NABBA 2nd section champions) - 1st baritone (Besson BE956 w/ Denis Wick 6BY) and 10 piece ensemble (Getzen 1052FD bass trombone w/ Bach 1G)

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by jkircoff View Post
    ...My general rule of thumb is to give a MP around 6 weeks of consistent and exclusive use before giving it a final verdict.
    That sounds about right. Just what I will do starting mid July.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Wessex TE-360 Bombino Eb Tuba
    Rapid City New Horizons & Municipal Bands (Euphonium)
    Black Hills Symphony Orchestra (Bass Trombone), Powder River Symphony, Gillette, WY (Tenor Trombone)
    Black Hills Brass Quintet (Tuba)

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