Looking at some new Euphoniums for college

[Jasoncostello77]

Hello! I’m currently a rising senior in high school and I currently play on a Besson Sovereign owned by my school. I’m looking to get a horn of my own for college and I have about 5000 dollars in my budget. Obviously, there are really high quality stencil horns like Packer and Wessex that are way below the 5000 dollar mark that I’m considering. But here are the list if horns I’m considering in no particular order. I’ve played on one euphonium my entire life so I have no idea which one is better

1) Eastman EEP526
2) JP274S
3) JP374S
4) Wessex Dolce
5) BAC Euphonium
6) Any other Suggestions some of the more experienced people in this forum have to to offer? I’m really new to buying a new horn

[spkissane]

Honestly, a used horn from one of the "classic" brands would be a better investment IMHO. More proven, consistent quality. I believe I saw a few Yamaha Neo's (EXCELLENT instruments) on ebay for sub-5000 recently. It seems like you can typically find a used Willson, Besson, or Yamaha for around, if not less than, that.

[davewerden]

Honestly, a used horn from one of the "classic" brands would be a better investment IMHO. More proven, consistent quality. I believe I saw a few Yamaha Neo's (EXCELLENT instruments) on ebay for sub-5000 recently. It seems like you can typically find a used Willson, Besson, or Yamaha for around, if not less than, that.

I'll second that recommendation! The new breed of Chinese-made horns are getting very good, but the best examples of used horns from top makers would be a safer choice.

[58mark]

$5000 will get you a nice selection of a used horn, including a used willson or yamaha. I'd personally stay away from besson, they went through a period where quality control was really low, and you never knew what you were going to get

Of the horns on your list, I love my 274s, and would recommend it to anyone. Remember to talk to a dealer, don't just by online prices. Should be able to get one for $1600-1800

[Jasoncostello77]

Okay! Thank you for your suggestions. I don’t believe I’ve heard of this issue with besson. What year did this happen and why did it occur? What issues would I have to look out for it I was testing a besson instrument and I didn’t know what year it was from?

[58mark]

I bet others can narrow it down, but I started hearing bad things about them as far back as the early 90's. It seems in the last 5 years they seem to have gotten their act together.

I think newer models have figured out how to fix some of the tuning issues that older ones seem to have. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong about that

[davewerden]

I bet others can narrow it down, but I started hearing bad things about them as far back as the early 90's. It seems in the last 5 years they seem to have gotten their act together.

From what I know, you are right about the problems starting in the early 1990's. I have some British friends who showed me firsthand. I believe they were resolved once the horns began production in Germany.

I think newer models have figured out how to fix some of the tuning issues that older ones seem to have. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong about that

That does not seem to be the case, except for now having the trigger.

[Jasoncostello77]

The Besson Sovereign I play on is from the early 2000’s and I have never had any issues with it. The intonation is kinda weird but it’s nothing unlike every other Besson Sovereign I’ve read about. I’d be looking for a Besson Sovereign from around the same time the one I currently play on is from

[MichaelSchott]

The Besson Sovereign I play on is from the early 2000’s and I have never had any issues with it. The intonation is kinda weird but it’s nothing unlike every other Besson Sovereign I’ve read about. I’d be looking for a Besson Sovereign from around the same time the one I currently play on is from

I think this is what David is saying. Besson's have had the same intonation quirks for decades. My guess is there is something in the design they do not want to change for fear the characteristic sound will change. I played a Boosey in college (1975-1979) that the school bought when I was there and it was funky back then.

[daviste]

Basically I agree with everyone else. I just finished my first year of college and I *just* upgraded to a Yamaha Neo, but I spent my first two semesters fighting with the intonation on my Wessex Dolce. So, from experience I would recommend you stay away from those sort of brands for serious college playing

[BDeisinger]

The best to my knowledge Besson is made by the Buffet Crampon group and I know the 4 valve non compensator is made by B&S. I would agree Dave and others that a good top of the line used is less risky than the Chinese brands. Myself, I do not advocate for Chinese manufactured instruments for various reasons. Buying a used instrument from a dealer or looking at one through a dealer would give you a chance to give the instrument a try. In my college days, there were plenty of dealers to go around and play all different horns. Unfortunately I didn't do that and chose a Conn for college which actually was an excellent choice. That horn served me well for over 50 years and was still in very good condition. A note of humor, as much as I tried, the music department would only list me as a baritone horn major even though I played the American style euphonium.

[Pat]

I've had several Bessons, from several year groups, and I've never had a bad one. I love the tone and the build quality

[scubaeuph]

I'd like to weigh in on the Besson dogma- the production is so good today on the Sovereigns they basically don't need triggers (some of us never had a horn with triggers so we are not missing one without). Yes if you want to bash them go back to the 90's but that is over twenty five years ago, and those were English made instruments when they rested on their laurels and all the names mentioned (including Yamaha) were not even born yet. A lot has changed since then. And yes there were some good horns intonation wise back in those days (and a lot of bad), but not anywhere near the consistency of today. A prudent shopper should always try the horn first to look for quirks, or have a known player/professor/teacher play-test it for you (and be able to put his or her personal feelings aside). Now if you are considering a new horn at an intermediate price point- no one is talking about the Besson 165 intermediate horn, and you should because of the feature set, and it resembles the Sovereign horn.

[ChristianeSparkle]

Besson Sovereigns that don't need trigger? Now that's a very interesting thing I've read. This is admittedly the first time I've heard about a Besson not needing trigger

[davewerden]

Besson Sovereigns that don't need trigger? Now that's a very interesting thing I've read. This is admittedly the first time I've heard about a Besson not needing trigger

In this context, "need" is an interesting word!

My Adams does not have a trigger; I feel I do not need it. But there are a few sharp notes that a trigger could help with. For me, the trade-off is not good so I avoid having the trigger.

Before anyone had triggers on production compensating euphoniums, I would be in awe at some of the British players using Besson/B&H who seemed able to play in tune with natural fingerings. I used alternate fingerings because I could not make the natural fingering sound "natural" as I adjusted its pitch. Now in some cases, probably many, the player went to the factory or a larger dealer and tried multiple samples before buying a horn. With variation from horn to horn, some played closer to pitch. That might have helped. But I think the main reason some of these players did so well is they grew up with Bessons and simply learned to play them in tune, even though the instrument itself had a very sharp 6th partial.

Big the biggest argument on whether a Besson needs a trigger is made by the top-notch Besson artists you can see on YouTube. Their thumb will disappear inside the 3rd valve tubing as they press the trigger on 6th-partial notes. Could Steven Mead play one without a trigger? Of course! But a couple decades ago I noticed his Besson had a trigger custom-installed before Besson began to include it. So did/does Steven "need" a trigger on his Prestige? I think you could make a case either way.

BTW, here is a comparison of the Sovereign and the Prestige for overall tuning. The Sovereign was a British model, so the German one may be more like the Prestige these days: