Sponsor Banner

Collapse

B.A.C. Euphonium

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • spkissane
    Senior Member
    • Jul 2011
    • 226

    B.A.C. Euphonium

    So I know everyone's talking about the new Shires euphoniums this week, which have debuted at ITEC, but another one that had a much quieter introduction was the new compensator from B.A.C. out of Kansas City - a maker of some pretty ostentatious custom trombones and trumpets. I had heard a few weeks ago (I think) that B.A.C. had purchased tooling from the now-seemingly-deceased Kanstul factory. A rep had their brand new prototype euphonium in the large vendor room for the first few days of the conference.

    As our friend Snorlax can confirm, I was extremely impressed with this horn. I played it three times over a couple days - once side-by-side with my Geneva Cardinal. Very easy response in all the registers, good note slotting, and the sound, to me, felt like a more "focused" version of the Besson sound, which I quite liked. I would've loved to get it in a practice room for a couple hours and REALLY test it, especially for intonation.

    It looks like the horn is *probably* based off a Besson design? It's got the "kink" in the main tube where it approaches the tuning slide, that I have only seen in Besson and Geneva horns.

    Everyone's different, obviously, but to me, this was one of two favorite horns that I tried at the conference. (The other being a particular Adams E1, but for a completely different reason.)

    Anyone else get to try it out? Thoughts?

    PS - The guy informed me that the pre-order price until June 1 is only $3995, which is confirmed on the B.A.C. Facebook page, and the price will go up to the $5000+ range once production starts. Looks like they might be really pushing to get those first few horns out into the community. And if the production models are at LEAST as good as the prototype, it's certainly worth every penny.
    Sean Kissane
    Low Brass Specialist, Paige's Music
    Principal Euphonium, Indianapolis Brass Choir
    Principal Euphonium, Crossroads Brass Band
  • RickF
    Moderator
    • Jan 2006
    • 3871

    #2
    I’ve not heard of B.A.C. getting into the euphonium business. Interesting. I found this video of it being introduced by Mike Carrigan (president/founder of BAC) and Roger Oyster, formerly of the Marine Band in Wash DC and now with KC Symphony. Looks nice and sounds good.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-8L7Wu6df98
    ....
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc

    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches

    El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
    The Cowboys (John Williams, arr. James Curnow)
    Festive Overture (Dmitri Shostakovich)

    Comment

    • bbocaner
      Senior Member
      • May 2009
      • 1449

      #3
      I think it's likely they just put together an instrument with leftover Kanstul parts. I think it's probably too soon for them to have gotten tooled up to produce any parts on their own. Getting tooled up to produce pistons and the like would seem to me like it would take some time.

      oh! <edit> I watched the video and he calls it an "artist series euphonium" -- my understanding is their artist series instruments are jinbao-made. That makes more sense.

      I had a horrendous experience with BAC, and I'm far from the only one. On the old trombone forum I had dozens of messages from other people who also felt scammed. This was several years ago, but it was extremely negative and I don't see much evidence that they've changed.
      Last edited by bbocaner; 05-31-2019, 01:39 PM.
      --
      Barry

      Comment

      • bbocaner
        Senior Member
        • May 2009
        • 1449

        #4
        except it doesn't look like a jinbao... it does look a lot like the JP Sterling, though -- not sure what factory exactly that comes from, but I'll bet it's a Chinese instrument of roughly equivalent design to the JP Sterling, perhaps with a few tweaks.
        --
        Barry

        Comment

        • daruby
          Moderator
          • Apr 2006
          • 2217

          #5
          Funny, before I read Barry's comments I thought it looked like the JP to me too. Particularly the valveset and the wrap. That would be consistent with the other comments since JP tends to "clone" Besson unlike Jinbao which tends to clone Yamaha.
          Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
          Concord Band
          Winchendon Winds
          Townsend Military Band

          Comment

          • spkissane
            Senior Member
            • Jul 2011
            • 226

            #6
            All I have to go on is what I observed when I played the horn, and it certainly didn't feel like a jinbao ��

            E - just found this from Derek Molacek, who was the one showing off the horn in the vendor room. Not a great quality video, but at least a little more to see/hear https://www.facebook.com/derekjmolac...73887036144061

            If this horn is in fact a jinbao or other Chinese "copy" horn it'd be pretty unscrupulous to be taking pre-orders on a model they plan to make in house with this as the representation.

            EE - I'm also seeing what you guys mean about the resemblance to the JP. Especially the tiny brace between the bell and floating leadpipe, which I've never seen on another horn.
            Last edited by spkissane; 05-31-2019, 02:43 PM.
            Sean Kissane
            Low Brass Specialist, Paige's Music
            Principal Euphonium, Indianapolis Brass Choir
            Principal Euphonium, Crossroads Brass Band

            Comment

            • bbocaner
              Senior Member
              • May 2009
              • 1449

              #7
              My experience is that "unscrupulous" describes Mr. Corrigan perfectly. But in this case, they do say it is "artist series" and they do explain on their web site (although it is buried in the FAQ) the following:

              Our Apprentice and Artist Series Instruments are designed by B.A.C. Craftsmen in Kansas City, and produced to our specifications in the Beijing, and Tianjin Region of China.

              I would think that means there is no intention of making it in-house, meaning in their KC facility.
              Last edited by bbocaner; 05-31-2019, 03:40 PM.
              --
              Barry

              Comment

              • spkissane
                Senior Member
                • Jul 2011
                • 226

                #8
                Well, that's a *little* disappointing. The horn they had at the show was definitely a nice player, but perhaps it was just a very good example of a copy horn. And in that case, the higher "production" price would probably be better spent on a more consistent quality brand.

                So that leaves one question: why the h*ck buy tooling from Kanstul in the first place? Unless the plan is to roll out a "custom" product a-la their trumpets and trombones.
                Sean Kissane
                Low Brass Specialist, Paige's Music
                Principal Euphonium, Indianapolis Brass Choir
                Principal Euphonium, Crossroads Brass Band

                Comment

                • Sara Hood
                  Senior Member
                  • Mar 2017
                  • 309

                  #9
                  "produced to our specifications in the Beijing, and Tianjin Region of China"

                  If I understand the geography correctly, the JinBao factory complex is in Tianjin, which in turn is not far from Beijing. Now whether there are other brass instrument manufacturers also located in Tianjin, I do not know.

                  - Sara
                  Baritone - 3 Valve, Compensating, JinBao JBBR1240

                  Comment

                  • guidocorona
                    Senior Member
                    • Jun 2018
                    • 483

                    #10
                    The manufacturerJin Bao might very well be the shop that makes the B.A.C. eupho.... While Jin Bao's labeled instruments are mostly Yamaha clones, the factory does make horns patterned over other brands... Case in point is the Wessex Festivo, which as far as I know is manufactured by Jin Bao and patterned over a Besson.

                    G.
                    M5050L - DC2&3, SM2&4U, BT16, Carbonaria Heavy & New
                    Wessex EP104 Festivo - available
                    Carolbrass CCR7772 Bb cornet - Available

                    Comment

                    • bbocaner
                      Senior Member
                      • May 2009
                      • 1449

                      #11
                      I took a closer look and it looks more like the JP274 than the JP-Sterling 374. It's a little bit mysterious exactly what factory those are made in, but I don't think it is jinbao actually. And I don't doubt that they ordered it with some special customizations, and supply it with a fancier case - but the JP274 is a $2000 euphonium. Selling it for $5000 or even a "special $3000 intro price" is pretty ballsy.

                      Keep in mind that the Shires Q-series is a chinese instrument as well, but all this stenciling is pretty out of control.
                      --
                      Barry

                      Comment

                      • spkissane
                        Senior Member
                        • Jul 2011
                        • 226

                        #12
                        Definitely agree about the price - for some reason I thought I'd made some comment at the show about the horn being the "new American-made euphonium" and heard some sort of agreement or affirmation. BUT that may well be a mis-remembering or mis-hearing on my part (the whole conference is all kind of a blur at this point). The profit margins must be enormous for so many companies to be releasing these stencil horns when the market seems to be flooding currently.

                        And I'm STILL curious about the Kanstul connection.
                        Sean Kissane
                        Low Brass Specialist, Paige's Music
                        Principal Euphonium, Indianapolis Brass Choir
                        Principal Euphonium, Crossroads Brass Band

                        Comment

                        • ChristianeSparkle
                          Senior Member
                          • Jun 2018
                          • 366

                          #13
                          The first thing that came to mind when I saw the video was "Hey, it looks like the JP274 I own". Glad I wasn't the only one that noticed it
                          "Never over complicate things. Accept "bad" days. Always enjoy yourself when playing, love the sound we can make on our instruments (because that's why we all started playing the Euph)"

                          Euph: Yamaha 642II Neo - 千歌音
                          Mouthpiece: K&G 4D, Denis Wick 5AL

                          https://soundcloud.com/ashsparkle_chika
                          https://www.youtube.com/user/AshTSparkle/

                          Comment

                          • adrian_quince
                            Senior Member
                            • Mar 2015
                            • 277

                            #14
                            Regarding the Kanstul tooling, I'm super skeptical. So far as I can tell, there are two distinct models of Kanstul compensating euphoniums. The first generation looks more Besson-ish on quick inspection. The second generation, of which my 2014 Kanstul is one, has a very different wrap, especially in the fourth valve slide. Also, the second generation has the asymmetric hand brace.

                            Click image for larger version

Name:	Kanstul975Generations.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	323.5 KB
ID:	117541

                            To me eye, the horn in the video has nothing to do with Kanstul. The bell flare is wrong. The wrap of the tubing is significantly different. The bracing is the wrong design and in the wrong spot. The water keys are wrong. The finger buttons and top and bottom valve caps are wrong. The bottom bow guard is wrong. The hand brace is wrong for either generation of Kanstul.

                            Maybe there was some tooling purchased by B.A.C., but honestly, I've played a Kanstul for a long time and I just can't see the connection.
                            Adrian L. Quince
                            Composer, Conductor, Euphoniumist
                            www.adrianquince.com

                            Kanstul 976 - SM4U

                            Comment

                            • ChristianeSparkle
                              Senior Member
                              • Jun 2018
                              • 366

                              #15
                              Oh, the case looks like the one provided with the Elliott Euphonium endorsed by Lyndon Baglin!

                              http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthr...!#.XPYiT4gzbIU
                              "Never over complicate things. Accept "bad" days. Always enjoy yourself when playing, love the sound we can make on our instruments (because that's why we all started playing the Euph)"

                              Euph: Yamaha 642II Neo - 千歌音
                              Mouthpiece: K&G 4D, Denis Wick 5AL

                              https://soundcloud.com/ashsparkle_chika
                              https://www.youtube.com/user/AshTSparkle/

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X